Re: Visual Age for RPG -- MIDRANGE-L



RE:     Re: Visual Age for RPG

>John,
>In a message dated 97-06-24 09:23:33 EDT, you write:

>> What if you (being a RPG programmer) could generate Java byte code using
>>  VA-RPG?  I think that might be a Real Strong possibility in the near 
>>  future!   Comming to a CPU near you.
>>  
>>  We (RPG programmers) may get out of having to learning "C" yet. 
>>  Imagine coding SETLL, DOUEQ, LEAVE (ha ha) ...   AND  ... 
>>  generate real JAVA byte code besides? 
>>  How would the rest of you who are reading this like to see that?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dean wrote
>All well and good, but a crutch is still a crutch.  Heck, I hear all the time
>about programmers / contractors that STILL refuse to write anything that
>doesn't run in the S/36 environment on the /400!  As much good stuff as I've
>heard about the VA products, I'd still like to see them run cross-platform
>before recommending them to the public at large.  If VA is indeed IBM's
>future direction, why not provide ALL of the products free of charge as part
>of ADT?  Furthermore, if IBM wants to promote software development for the
>AS/400, why not provide ALL compilers free of charge?  In the latter
>instance, the winners would emerge and the losers would diverge.  Companies
>that want to simplify their EDP audits could simply not install ANY
>compilers...
>JMHO,
>Dean Asmussen

Dean
I believe that IBM can't "dump" onto the market, say, the RPG compiler
for nothing even if they wanted to.  I think there is some constraint
that they're under and must justify their "Costs" with expected revenue
and price accordingly.

Thats why the PL/1 compiler for the SYS/38 cost $9,000.  It didn't 
matter if they wanted to "give it away"  I think they couldn't legally 
do it.  The same is true for the ADT tools.  There were some "finagling"
to offer CODE/400 with it for something like $800.  

I don't know if the 1956 non-compete ruling which was just overturned had
anything to do with this or not.   If anyone else has any insight on this
point I would like to see some comments either way.

The VA/400(Visual Age) tools, ARE good tools If you go to COMMON you could
probably without much trouble talk someone(IBM) out of a copy of VA/RPG.

Now, about your other statement, on the one hand you say that " A crutch
is Still a crutch". I take that to mean that "VA/RPG generating JAVA
ByteCode" is not as "Good" as writing pure JAVA (with its C learning curve).
Then in the same sentence you cite Programmers / Consultants that still
write SYS/36 environment stuff.   

My point is that, If there a lot of programmers that "Can't/Won't/Don't
or Don't Wanna"  write the "new stuff" like RPGIV with D-Specs, Based
variables, inline Procedures, etc.  What chance will they ever learn
a "Visual" language of any kind?  I would think that as a first step, 
learning a Visual language with all the trimmings(DDE, Buttons, Windows,
Controls, Pulldown boxes, etc)  would be much easier if the "Scripting 
Language" is one that their at least fimilar with(ie RPG). 

As a next step, having that "Visual Language" generate the current buzz 
word "JAVA" would be a incremental step in the right direction.

But I may be wrong as usual.    

Visual RPG is a AS/400 concentric product.  It was designed from the start
to work with the "Server of Choice" being the AS/400.  Hence the native
CHAINS, READ's SETLL's and F-Spec's.  It was NOT designed to be a visual
product for the "Masses"  like DEC Alpha's or NT's or HP's etc.  

Visual Basic came from the other direction.  It was not designed with the
AS/400 in mind.  You must do a lot more work to make it talk to the AS/400
data base than you have to in VA/RPG for that reason(does VB have F-Specs
no I don't think so).  So, how did you say it "I'd still like to see them 
run cross-platform before recommending them to the public at large"  
doesn't make sense from that perspective.  VA/RPG doesn't and probably 
won't for the reason I stated.

JHMO

John Carr CDP
EdgeTech
5921 Acorn Ridge Ct.
Midlothian Va.  23112
Ph 804-739-7689
Fax 804-739-7950
Email 74711.77@compuserve.com


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