Re: IBM Spin Doctors on AS/400 Marketing -- MIDRANGE-L

Chris,

In a message dated 97-11-05 03:32:41 EST, you write:

> >>  I am sure you mean well, but:
>  >>  1) Software Development Houses (surprise!) DO deal with end users.
>  >>  2) Four weeks of working in a software development house isn't likely
to
>  >>  erase my memory of the prior twenty years experience in end user
shops.
>  >
>  >Sorry, but (referring to 2) it seems to have.  Despite mounds of (albeit
>  >anecdotal, it _IS_ the Internet after all) evidence from the list, you
still
>  >"stick to your guns" regarding this insane premise that management makes
>  >IS choices based upon facts and "what's best for the company" rather than
>  >"what they've heard" recently.  Granted, I have a mere eighteen years'
experience
>  >in the industry, but I have seen EVERY SINGLE ONE of the presented 
>  >anecdotes and _MORE_.  You must have either had your head in the sand, or

>  >simply not been listening to management demands.
>  
>  Dean, it seems that you are out of touch with reality. Do you suppose that
>  the half a million AS/400 sales occured because that's "what they heard"?
>  I have been in management making those management decisions, have you? I
>  would hope so, with eighteen years experience. So, did YOU make your
>  decisions based on what you heard recently? No? But everyone except you is
>  an idiot? 

To invert the previous paragraph, it would seem that with the responses on
the subject so far, you think that everyone except _you_ is an idiot ;-).
 Yes I've been in management, yes I've made those decisions, and yes I've had
an idiot General Manager, CEO, CFO, Controller, try to push decisions on me
based upon what _THEY'D_ heard recently.  In several of the latter instances,
I left rather than subject the company to the whims of ill-informed
management.  Often this ended in the management in question being fired
(years) after my departure, having spent millions of dollars on systems that
didn't work.

Half a million AS/400 sales occurred, for the most part, because of the US
economy.  Small companies are the "backbone" of this country.  Companies that
started on the S/36 (because "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM", OHHHHHHH
yeah, people don't make decisions based upon "what they've heard".) went to
the /400 as a natural and cost-effective choice.  Said companies continued to
grow and, rather than purchasing a larger /400, implemented the
"departmental" strategy espoused by the old "M*A*S*H" ad's with which I am so
enamored.  Rather than expand the existing /400, they bought a new one to
serve new applications.  I'd be interested in seeing a study of what the
number of installed AS/400's at an average site was 5 years ago versus today.
 If _I'm_ out of touch with reality, why have most responses to this thread
been contradicting _YOUR_ examples?

>  Wake up, Dean. 

I'm there, man.

>  I read, "IBM needs to advertise more to counter Microsoft." I say,  "I
>  don't think that advertising is the answer." Response is: "Microsoft has
>  turned the crowd with smiley faced NT ads." I say, "I haven't seen these
>  ads, can you tell me about them?" Response, "Chris, Chris, Chris, it
>  doesn't matter that they don't really exist, it is the perception that
>  they do that is important." 

This thread has been too long to track, but I don't believe that I stated
_any_ of the above.  Despite the fact that I run NT/Workstation myself, I
don't recall ever seeing an NT ad.  The press you mentioned (in a prior post,
and with which I agree) is completely unrelated to NT advertising.  MicroSoft
has "turned the crowd" simply because they _ARE_ MicroSoft.  I despise
MicroSoft, more than I used to despise IBM when I was on other platforms.  I
find it absolutely _UNCONSCIONABLE_ that the US Justice Department has been
unable to find MicroSoft guilty on any count.  

_MY_ problem is that I have to run what my customers run (you know, those
guys that never make a decision strictly based on "what they've heard").
 Quite frankly, my PC on site at my primary customer runs OS/2, and it's the
only one out of 15 developers that does.  Why?  Because I charge a rather
large hourly rate and my CM/2 sessions stay active when all 1

>  And...
>  
>  "Management is stupid so IBM needs to counter the non-existant Microsoft
>  ads with ads that will convince management that AS/400s are hip and cool.
>  The proof that this is necessary is the bunch of anecdotes we can recite
>  about stupid mistakes."
>  
>  No substance, nothing. If I didn't know better, I'd say you were a pointy
>  haired boss. Isn't that what you would say about someone who made such a
>  judgement based on anecdotes they read on the internet?
>  
>  Here's a harsh reality for you, Dean: 100% up time with no applications
>  isn't worth as much to upper management as 50% up time with one
>  application.
>  
>  10,000 applications they don't want < 1 they do.
>  
>  So, 500,000 AS/400 installs indicates that there are still valued
>  applications on them. Similar indications from mainframes and Unix
>  platforms. 
>  
>  But, as the APPLICATIONS capture the interest of the buying public, NT
>  will happily overtake other platforms. The solution? I think it is to
>  develop and market APPLICATIONS which run on the AS/400. Brand name
>  recognition is important. It can help to close a deal and it does help to
>  get the foot in the door. I would like to see Rochester enhance AS/400
>  brand recognition, but I do understand that advertising the AS/400 might
>  not bring as much business to that platform as simply advertising IBM as a
>  solutions provider for hot topic applications and then turning those
>  buyers to the AS/400 once in the door.
>  
>  >Ummmm, what did you say you'd been doing for the last twenty years?  Are
>  you
>  >_SERIOUSLY_ saying that you _HAVEN'T_ yet received the "UNIX is taking
>  over
>  >the world" speech from upper management somewhere??!!  NT is the
>  replacement
>  >for UNIX in the _NEW_ "taking over the world" catchphrase.  After all,
>  it's
>  >so "OPEN".  Ye Gods!  The only way that I was able to avoid the UNIX
>  >onslaught in past "real job" positions was to do some serious research
and
>  >present real dollars to management regarding what it would take to switch
>  >from our current platform to UNIX.  This also involved asking "just which
>  >platform would you like?", "just what flavor of UNIX would you like (AIX,
>  V,
>  >HP/UX, SCO, Open/VAX)?", and "what database/security system would you
>  like?".
>  > UNIX has been a ubiquitous presence in the life of every single IS
>  manager
>  >and IBM salesperson for _AT LEAST_ the last ten years -- I find it
>  difficult
>  >to believe that you would present this as an argument.
>  
>  More anecdote crap which supports nothing. Sorry you had trouble holding a
>  real job. Unix never had much of a foothold in the gaming industry in Las
>  Vegas. It never bothered me. 
>  
>  By the way, perhaps the reason you had trouble with management is your
>  failing to understand what your job is. Riding along on IBM's platform is
>  fun, but it is your job to explore the cost/benefit of other platforms and
>  explore alternatives. Rather than bitch that you were forced to show that
>  to upper management, you should consider the fact that only really stupid
>  managers would not bother to explore alternatives.
>  
>  >No offense, but how often can you contradict yourself?  You've done it in
>  >your other notes on this subject, but do you not see the irony in
>  discussing
>  >NT's omnipresence in "the trades" and stating in the same breath that
"IBM
>  >can't change that with some glossy ads"?  NT has _NO_ "new, flashy,
>  feature
>  >rich applications".  As was stated in an article on this thread before,
>  name
>  >_ONE_ application for which you should purchase NT.  I didn't think you
>  >could.  So, why is everyone purchasing NT other than management edicts
and
>  >the "that's the way everyone's going" mentality?
>  
>  Dean, I think this really indicates where you completely miss the point.
>  As has been pointed out (not by me) NT is NOT being advertised. As has
>  been pointed out (by me), NT makes headlines in the trades all the time.
>  How? With a zillion articles on applications. My argument is that IBM
>  needs to get applications that will make trade press in the same way.
>  Yours is that IBM should pay for glossy ads. 
>  
>  NT has a LOT of new, feature rich applications. Data warehousing, credit
>  management systems, accounting, groupware, etc., etc. Name one I would
>  buy? READ MY GODDAMN TAG, DEAN. I wouldn't buy them. That doesn't mean >
 I am so dense I won't admit they are there. In a few years, I will be buying
>  NT apps, because NT will reach the stability of the AS/400 and there won't
>  be any new AS/400 apps UNLESS IBM DOES SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
>  
>  Perhaps your problem, Dean, is that you don't actually read the trade mags
>  or research products. If you insist on management by anecdote you will
>  soon be the subject of a Dilbert cartoon.

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