Re: Free OS/400 -- MIDRANGE-L



On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Bob Cozzi (RPGIV) wrote:

> All the talk about WebFacing or Webshpere studio having a open source
> equivalent is interesting. But lately I've been thinking about the year
> 2003. I think IBM plans on making 2003 the last year of the
> System/38/AS/400/iSeries product line, so I'm thinking how best to
> manage this situation from a career perspective.

Sounds like an epiphany in the making.  

> It seems to me that IBM is pushing all of use toward non OS/400
> platforms. For some reason they feel that a relatively good rogue
> operating system like Linux is going to generate more money for them
> than OS/400. Perhaps it will, but I think it's unlikely. Will be move
> our general purpose business applications to Linux running on an
> expensive IBM platform when I can get a cheap piece of crap that works
> good enough from CompUSA, DELL, or other? Probably not.

Uh, there's alot of big players betting big bucks that they will succeed
here doing just that!  AND, why spend the bucks on a DELL or waste time at
CompUSA (which is now selling M&M's right next to the NIC cards...they
need sales...actually, they need salesPEOPLE that know what the hell
they're selling!...local language skills would also be a big plus...),
when I can put a really good clone together, get raid
or mirroring, etc., cheaper than a Dell?   And Mike's folks make good
stuff...in spite of the layoffs that are going on there now....


And, let's not forget Fiorina over at HP who also has some fiercy loyal
fanatic users.

> Perhaps IBM thinks that AIX and RS/6000 (I don't remember which letter
> eServer it is, xSeries? pSeries? Whatever) is where we will move our
> general purpose business applications? Unlikely.

Uh, data and evidence don't agree with you.  There's alot of iSeries boxes
going to rs/6000...basically because the new CIO knows unix or is
otherwise dranged...  If you have a Lawson users group in your region,
toto the next meeting...look at the demographics from a system basis...and
ask the folks that USED to be on 400's why they're now on AIX, Oracle or
Sequal server or .....but NOT on 400....I did that at the mid atlantic
group already...

The work I do with Local User Groups is incredibly enlightening on how
things are in the regions.  How thing are where the rubber meets the road.
Frankly, I like the heck out of it and wish I could do it full time!  IT'S
FUN!  But you learn alot of the all important "WHY" as to what's going on
in people's minds....something IBM marketing is chosing to ignore.


> Maybe we'll just move all that COBOL, RPG and other code up to the
> Mainframe? Illogical.

Interesting how many mainframes are converting to 400's...

> The current technology of the day seems to be Linux and HTTP Server
> application enablement. Okay, so when that passes in a year or two, then
> what? Two years ago it was Java. Today, you'd be hard pressed to find a
> working Java application running in a business environment. Yet there
> are dozens of people at JAVA for AS/400 Programmer seminars all over the
> country. Where are these people going after the seminar's are over?

Dick's Last Resort.  

Alot of times these folks goto seminars to see what
it's all about or to just start learning the stuff because they actually
see want ads in the Post or Trib for JAVA, Oracle, Linux, Oracle, Windows,
Oracle, NT,Oracle, NT, Oracle, XML, Oracle, unix, Oracle....but not a
whole heckuva lot of iSeries ads...and these few people are the ones that
are SMART enough to realize that if they're going to have the bucks for
thier kids college fund, they need to diversify.  

Further, shops are very heterogeneous on their systems content...and one
needs to be able to at least understand the lingo...to keep thier own jobs
if nothing else!  Uh, you're going to tell me that I should put LPAR and
all the extra hardware and software baggage on my 400 just to run NT or
linux????  


> Well, (and I'm guessing here) I'm suppose a few got it, and are using it
> for something. A few others just didn't get it. The rest are probably
> moving off the AS/400 so they don't have to deal with an unstable
> direction from IBM. 

Still in denial perhaps? :)


> Sure the AS/400 is still the best platform for general purpose business
> applications, period.


WITHOUT QUESTION!

Uh, has anyone brought up the massive "inbreeding" at IBM issue when it
comes to people understanding how the rest of the real world does
something and that there's sometimes another way to skin the cat than the
IBM way...as spelt out in a Redbook, of course...:)

> But it still doesn't have a Graphical User
> Interface, regardless of how much Marketing BS IBM prints to out and out
> lie about it having a graphical interface. It does not. It is a
> character-mode only, textual interface, based on the 5250 data stream
> from the mid 1970s. It is not graphical.

Uh, point of order, Mr. Chairman:  For heads down keying, order entry,
shop floor...where they don't need all the extra apps running on the desk
top...and this also includes alot of POS...  GREEN SCREENS ARE THE FASTEST
WAY TO DO IT.


> (And don't give me that OpsNav
> crap. Sure it is a GUI-ized application, but can your Order Entry apps
> be graphical, and have that graphical interface be controlled from your
> high-level languages? Can you create a button on the fly in RPG and put
> it into a window? Is that interface "native"? No.) <GUI RANT OFF>
> If IBM can't sell the AS/400 to new customers, it will die when we, the
> current customer set, decide it has had enough. Or, IBM may kill it off
> in favor of offering less expensive products. Remember, IBM definition
> of "less expensive" is less expensive to IBM, not to the customer. 


I'm hearing IBM'ers lament that the later is in deed the fact...that the
sales to NEW installs vs upgrades is a big concern...to the extent that
it's effecting CE training...they're not training alot of new ones...

And, why not?  Heck, IBM's telling their user base through the ads to buy
unix, oracle, NT, oracle, ..... BUT ALMOST NEVER iSERIES....


> If IBM were smart the would do a few things to make money.

Uh, it's losing money? :)  Interesting side bar:  An economy that is based
on a service model is one that will decline.  You have to have a strong
manufacturing source to grow.  IBM seems hell bent for leather into
turning themselves into a high priced Computer Associates....and we know
how their sales have been lately...


> 1) Make OS/400 Open Source.


OY!  

> Why screw with Linux and try to get OS/400
> people to move to it, when they could do much better with OS/400 in the
> same space. Hell the thing is now mostly written in C++, and it is a
> PowerPC CPU operating system. Open it up, let Rochester sell tools for
> adding on to it and be done with it. Okay, I'd rather have a $5000
> version of OS/400 without source that IBM Rochester supported than a
> free version with source. But that's just me.


Scary, but has merit....I could get a job as a systems pgmr then...:)

MAYBE THEN, IBM and Common would allow Leif to have his MI sessions
without panicing about the need for a IBM proctor in the room....:)
(BTW, didn't have one in Balti and his attendants RAVED about how good the
sessions were!)


> 2) Fire the marketing team; yes I mean the new one. They don't get it.

Hmmm...that would make alot of noise...a paradigm shift without a
tranmission....oy!

> 3) Fire the marketing team. If they didn't do it right by now, they
> probably will have to fire whom ever they bring in, so let's just get it
> done with.

you did that in #2...:)

> 4) Realize that you have at least 3 very different products. Who the
> F... cares if iSeries sells more than xSeries or some other line.
> Jealousy is not very business-like. 

Bob, you have Dennis Miller's permission to say FUCK....

Uh, ya wanna try to convert all the internal sales folks on that?  It
would take a paradigm shift in the sames/marketing model....  Also, they
should be teaching and giving incentives to marketing to KEEP installs.
The marketing folks only make bucks on NEW sales or installs....so,
hashing of systems is actually good for the marketing folks...


> A good friend of mine now retired from IBM and working on Microsoft
> applications with his son in Rochester Minnesota, once told me that the
> three things that run IBM were pompousness, arrogance, and jealousy.  
> I don't see any of these traits in Buell Duncan. I like him. I just hope
> Buell is not someone IBM put in there to distract us AS/400 bigots while
> IBM slowly terminates the assembly line.

I think you're right about Buell being sincere.

I'm also sharing your concern on the interference issue...

Uh, your wise friend is missed.  BUT, what I do find interesting with both
this friend and his associate who's son runs a Unix based system is that
neither were able to sell the 400 as a viable system to base a company on 
to their kids...that says alot more than any redbook ever will....

Reality...what a concept.


> If things don't change, the only career advice I would off all of you...
> learn C language syntax. Meaning, all new stuff is based on the C
> language, so you need to be able to read it before you can learn it.
> Knowing how the syntax of the C language is extremely important to your
> career.

Uh, that presumes you're going to be programming the restof of your lifes.
I think that tools will evolve (like Dreamweaver, etc.) that will make
knowledge of the underlying languages nice to know, but the tool will do
the work much better, faster and accurately than we can do today with
current code generators.

> If IBM wakes up, you'll be better positioned to work with the web stuff,
> HTML, XML, C#, JavaScript or whatever. If the don't you'll have a
> portable skill to Microsoft or Linux or whatever.

WHEN IBM wakes up, they'll find that they're running on Microsoft or
linux, they've lost the PC, the desktop, the server, server o/s.....
OH!  Sorry, that's already happening....

Anyone wonder why it's taking IBM soo long to realize they need a good
networking system as since as Netware and they can get it really cheap
now?

And all this because Ogilvy and Mather allegedly talked Lou into dumping
proprietary systems for M$ and intel and linux....

Further, I think you'll see the current mainframers running on Rochester
hardware...right now it's just a matter of time before Endicott realizes
that resistance is futile, you've been assiilated.

....time to read a nite time story to my 3-year old...a higher priority...
Ya know, I think that one day when she's in MBA or Law school and they do
case studies on companies that got bit in the ass because of marketing
screwups, that IBM will be one of the cases....


People and companies WILL have to run their businesses on something.  What
will it be?  Will they care?

I think not.  Example:  do you care what h/w or o/s your telephone runs
on? (it's unix, btw).  You just want there to be a dialtone when you
pickup
the phone and beeps when you punch the buttons and a "Hello, Momma Leone's
Restaurante..." on the other end when they pickup the phone.  The same is
true with business.  The application/software is the emphasis...nobody
cares about hardware or o/s....


...and that's the reality...


+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: david@midrange.com
+---