Linus/ESR hype (was RE: Changed to: Interactive Tax) -- MIDRANGE-L

On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, jt wrote:

> Linus DID have a good idea, which was a free *nix...  But he's leveraged
> that idea WAY beyond all proportion of the value of the original idea.  He
> got caught up in his own hype, IMHO...

Linus does not get caught up in his own hype.  When was the last time you
saw Linus put on a big show?  Ever hear Linus Torvalds say "Look at me!
See how great I am!"?  Linus gives speeches and grants interviews when
asked.  Linus began working at Transmeta long before linux became all the
rage.

> Last I heard, ALL changes to Linux go through him.  That's pretty poor, IMV,
> but that's always the way it's been in the Linux world, so is the CW...
> That's just one symptom of what I'm talking about.

Of course all changes go through him.  It is still his project.  And he
can do what he wants with it.  So can you.  Don't like his style?  Do your
own thing then.  His style doesn't work for everyone.  Some people keep
their own trees because of it.  Is this a problem?  No, not at all.  The
linux source code I obtain from SGI runs every bit as well as Linus'
source tree.

This doesn't mean that linux is "do it my way or the highway";  just the
opposite.  Linux and other GPL software encourage you to do it your way.
Linus' attitude can be summed up as "Here is how I do it, let's see how
you do it".

> Let me clear up one thing about my previous post...  If I was IBM, I'd
> donate the $40M software, too.  Linux has the best "game" in town, as far as
> going up against MicroHard...  But almost all the hype around Linux, and
> Linus and ESR personally, is due to their ability to wage a "religious war"
> against M$...  That has been my observation, anyway...

Please think before you speak.  Who did IBM donate the software to?
Linus?  Eric Raymond?  Red Hat?  No, IBM still owns all the software.  $40
million did not change hands.  IBM needs a way to compete.  Linux is the
best choice for them.  They made their software run on linux.  Some of it
they even published under the GPL.

Linus and Eric Raymond are both good at getting large groups of people to
work together.  Both of them are also very good programmers.  Both of them
point out problems in software and suggest (and code!) ways to fix them.
How does that make them worse then any of us when we report problems in
the software we use?

As for either of them making money/fame off of the hard work of others,
think about this:  where would OS/400 be without your input?  What if Hans
never posted or read any of the -L lists?  Where would the iSeries be if
we could not report problems with it?  I pay IBM for support, and they
make money off OS/400 which they improve by my bug reports.  I never
receive any compensation when a bug I report is fixed.  IBM is taking
advantage of the work and time of it's users to improve it's own product,
just as every company does.  It is the users that make the software
better, and GPL software takes that to a higher level by allowing the
users to directly contribute to a project's success.

> The OS itself, was just recently exhanced (in 2.4 IIRC) to have DB
> journaling.  This was heralded as another GREAT LINUX ADVANCEMENT...  This

Please understand what you are talking about.  DB (database) journaling
was not added to the linux kernel, file system journaling was.  There is a
significant difference.  And file system journaling is a great linux
advancement, not because such journaling had never been done before, but
because it had never been done with linux.  So for linux it is a great
advancement.  SGI's XFS filesystem makes linux on par (filesystem
speaking) with IRIX.  XFS is an amazing filesystem, which most other
filesystems (including any on OS/400) can't even touch.

> is the kind of hype I have a hard time stomaching.  But there's no real
> evaluation of OS vs. OS in this industry, much...  That's my gripe, more

I guess you don't follow the linux-*BSD wars then...  (hi Scott! :)

> than having anything against Linus and ESR...  They ARE masters at what they
> do.. which is marketing...  (As opposed to writing an OS, or profound
> thinking, as is the CW on these two...  Again, JMHO.)

Marketing masters????  Have you *seen* Eric?  Have you read the linux
source code?  Do you understand what they do?

Please don't vilify people you don't know.  You are incredibly rude and
offensive.  Your comments are not true and are unfair.  Please think
before you type.

James Rich
james@eaerich.com