RE: SQL Injection - security risk or bad programming?

["Himes, Jay" <jehimes@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Comments do work in other scripting languages as well; both Cold Fusion and
Net.Data support the -- syntax.

Almost any page that does not "sanity check" data incoming from a browser;
whether entered by the user or not, is probably vulnerable; no matter what
other precautions have been taken. This does not; however, reduce the
effectiveness of other precautions (like reducing privileges of the account
running the webserver, using prepared statements, or using stored procedures
to access data) as the seriousness of an intrusion can be greatly reduced. 

SQL injection is as big of a danger to a machine running OS/400 as a machine
running Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 1 (don't try that at home).  The
application code is what determines the level of vulnerability to this
particular attack. Of course this is only one vulnerability - OS/400 has no
IIS vulnerabilities.

I do agree that poor programming in the language of choice is at fault; but
I think you would be surprised a how prevalent examples of this
vulnerability are. Additionally it is not confined to machines running asp
or with a particular authentication scheme nor do most monitoring tools
provide any indication that you have been "hacked" as long as no damage is
done.



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Pluta [mailto:joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 2:38 PM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: SQL Injection - security risk or bad programming?

> From: Walden H. Leverich III
> 
> the problem of SQL Injection exists regardless of the authentication 
> method used or even the existence of authentication.

Only in poorly written code.


> To say that the problem is due to "really bad ASP programming" is just 
> inflammatory.

> There's nothing in this issue that's Microsoft's fault, don't pin it 
> there.

Walden, I went out of my way to be non-inflammatory, but since you think I
wasn't trying hard enough, let me expand on my point and remind of what it
looks like when I do voice my opinion <grin>.

Whether you want to admit it or not, this is really bad ASP programming,
particularly the bit about the "--" hack in the SQL statement, which to my
knowledge doesn't work on any other platform.  And while a version of this
technique can probably be used in a really crappy JDBC statement, the truth
is that most good Java programmers don't do that sort of stuff anymore,
especially since JDBC 2.  In fact, I have an entire lab available at
Rochester Initiative on using JDBC 2 properly.

But here's the part where I really blame Microsoft:

The statement "many programmers don't use them" is in reference to prepared
statements but could just as well include any good programming techniques.
A lot of commercial programming today stinks, and it is mostly a matter of
bad training and bad management.  Any programmer who uses obviously flawed
programming techniques needs more training, any manager who allows them to
be used in production software should be fired.  If we stopped making
excuses for bad programming and returned to an environment where quality was
both expected and required then we wouldn't have most of these hacks.

For example, all buffer overrun hacks are a direct result of a REALLY BAD
PROGRAMMING TECHNIQUE.  In fact, it's the same bad programming
technique: not checking for the end of the buffer (D'oh!).  But since this
level of quality is accepted in the software that comes out of Redmond, it
is now pervasive in the computing community.

Maybe it's not Microsoft's fault in this particular case, but the atmosphere
of poor quality programming I lay squarely at the feet of the folks in
Redmond.  By putting out code using lazy and sloppy techniques, Microsoft
invented the email virus.  By refusing to fix it except with more hacks upon
hacks, they extend the life of the concept.  Or more precisely, they
continue to provide the host where these things could thrive.

If you think your network as a human body, Windows is the HIV of desktop
computing.  And it's bad enough that it's on your desktop; it's even scarier
when it's considered for mission critical business operations.

There, NOW you can accuse me of being inflammatory <smile>.
 
Joe

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