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Well let's see, ummm no, but this is something being pushed by the
government. So why are they not paying them...
Michael Schutte
Work 614-492-7419
email michael_schutte@xxxxxxxxxxxx
"Chris Payne"
<CPayne@TheCrownG
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04/04/2006 01:35 Subject
PM RE: Sarbanes-Oxley / my opinion
Please respond to
Midrange Systems
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Discussion
<midrange-l@midra
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Are you going to pay for them instead?
-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Michael_Schutte@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 1:13 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: Sarbanes-Oxley / my opinion
Why does the company have to pay for the auditors? **BIG SMILE**
Michael Schutte
Work 614-492-7419
email michael_schutte@xxxxxxxxxxxx
"Condon, Mike"
<M1C@ingersoll-im
c.com>
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04/04/2006 01:08
Subject
PM RE: Sarbanes-Oxley / my opinion
Please respond to
Midrange Systems
Technical
Discussion
<midrange-l@midra
nge.com>
I suppose my three immediate questions would be:
1. What is SOX intended to prevent?
2. How effective is it at actually enforcing what it's intended to
prevent?
3. What are the new methods of circumventing it?
-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Milt Habeck
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 11:30 AM
To: Midrange technical discussion group
Subject: Sarbanes-Oxley / my opinion
Dear Mark,
Your 'SOX and BRMS' post last week has encouraged me
to share my personal point of view about SOX.
In my opinion, Sarbanes-Oxley compliance doesn't require an
enterprise to do anything that good business practice did not
already require a couple of decades ago. SOX just requires that
external auditors do a more thorough job looking for
distinctions between world class business practice and how a
company actually operates ... and ... it requires that the auditors
report those distinctions for review by investors.
It's not clear how well the "report-it-to-the-investors" part of
the legislation is working. If anyone knows of an annual report
that has included a SOX-type complaint in an audit letter,
please tell me more about it. If annual reports of that genre
can't be found, then we're left with two hypotheses:
1. Thousands of publicly traded companies are doing a great
job running their business with sound internal control
regimens in all functional areas (including IS).
2. The fear of annoying a client and not being invited to
perform next year's audit has proved to be more compelling
than the fear of failing to observe the letter of Sarbanes-Oxley.
[Quite candidly, it's hard to believe hypothesis #1 given the
testimonies I've personally heard from managers across a
broad cross section of manufacturing industries.]
Long before SOX was invented, pharmaceutical companies
had much more demanding business practice requirements imposed
by the FDA. If your enterprise could get system-certified under
FDA's 21 CFR part 11 rules, SOX would be a cake-walk.
There are several other IT compliance requirements that pre-date
SOX and here's a link to information about the better known ones:
http://www.unbeatenpathintl.com/ITstandards/source/1.html
You mention BRMS (Business Rule Management System)
software and that genre of tool can help an enterprise develop
and maintain operational policies. But, it's not going to help much
if the purchaser doesn't already grasp what world-class business
practices are supposed to look like.
Without that intellectual property, the final deliverable won't
help improve the quality of operations any more than many of
the ISO 900x policy books I've seen. (I'm referring to the
"just-write-down-what-we-are-already-doing-so-we-can-pass-
the-ISO-audit-ASAP" type efforts.)
Warm regards,
Milt Habeck
Founder/President
Unbeaten Path International
www.upisox.com
(888) 874-8008
"Unbeaten Path is in the business of
helping enterprises move towards
world class performance"
+++++++ +++++++ +++++++ +++++++ +++++++ +++++++
From: "Mark Allen" <scprideandms@xxxxxxxxx>
To:midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:45:59
Subject: SOX and BRMS saves of Application data and Objects
Looking for some ideas from somebody who's been thru this or at least
part
of it. I know a little about BRMS and not even sure "what" the SOX
Compliance people MIGHT be looking for. I know this is vague but its
all I
got for now. just looking for some general ideas.
Thanks, also feel free to respond off list.
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