Re: config for a low end 710 or 720-RDX

But, at the same time, does RDX have the same durability as tape? i
mean, disks have lots of moving parts that could break, sectors that
can start to fail, etc etc etc. and i doubt it has an integrated raid1
inside that shell...

On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 1:04 AM, DrFranken <midrange@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In theory never wear out as it's actually a hard disk drive. Nothing
touches so there are no wear points.

- DrF

On 12/5/2012 10:51 PM, franz400 wrote:

I appreciate all the info.
What I have not been able to find is how often to save to RDX before
wearing out?
Jim



----- Original Message -----
From: "DrFranken" <midrange@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Midrange Systems Technical Discussion" <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: config for a low end 710 or 720

I'm not quite as concerned about the Optical vs Tape difference as Pete
is. I have one of these as well and while the commands are indeed
different (INZOPT vs INZTAP for example) you can basically treat the
drive in much the same way as a tape drive. IBM I has allowed SAVSYS to
DVD's for years as well as many other saves and RDX essentially works as
a very large very fast DVD. The drive is bootable and exceedingly quick
to get to any specific file. The drive is far cheaper than the LTO
although media is a bit more expensive. On the low end systems I think
this is a very usable replacement for tape. It doesn't leave you a way
to migrate from older systems that much is true but over time I think
the RDX will be a big player on the low end.

- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhus

On 12/5/2012 11:49 AM, Pete Massiello - ML wrote:

Jim,

I was a beta site for both the USB & SATA RDX. You can use the SATA with
6.1 plus some PTFS as well. You are correct in stating the USB requires
V7R1 w/TR5.

There is certainly a cost difference between the LTO5 and the RDX, but we
found the LTO5 to be more than twice as fast as well. Also, an LTO5 is
4,000 list as an internal tape device. The SATA was also faster than the
USB attached from our tests. I think this is a good low-end technology,
but I would say it is NOT a straight tape replacement. The RDX is a
virtual optical, and you don't just use this as a tape drive replacement.
To me, that is a problem for customers wanting to do an "easy" swap. You
don't do an INZTAP against an RDX, you can't just do a SAVLIB to it,
without treating it as an optical device.

While I really like the technology, I am concerned about the need to
treat this as an optical vs a tape.

Pete

--
Pete Massiello
iTech Solutions
http://www.itechsol.com
http://www.iInTheCloud.com





-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Oberholtzer
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 7:40 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: config for a low end 710 or 720

I agree with Kirk, the 720. As many drives as you can stuff in there
(remember disk arm performance) with RAID6 and your almost as safe as
mirroring. I don't see any mention of LPAR but remember with a 720 4
way, you need to host the LPARs on IBM i or VIOS if you need them. (Now
your using an HMC or LVM as well)

I would have a real serious look at the internal RDX drive (the usb
attach I have works but it's slower) for back up. Looks and reacts like
a DVD on massive steroids. I've done all manner of testing with it and
it does well. Two concerns; first the cartridges are more expensive than
tape, but because they are really 2.5 inch hard drives they don't have
some of the drawbacks of tape either. The second is speed. They are a
bit slower than LTO but if that's not an issue.....

Now the real kicker. LTO5 internal on a 710/720 = $5000. RDX internal =
(about, I have not seen final pricing) $700. You can buy a lot of RDX
carts for that kind of money. RDX carts run from 360Gb to 1TB.

V7 with TR5 is required for the RDX units. They have a USB unit that
plugs into any of the USB ports on the 720, sweet. As my customers all
get to TR5 I'm using the RDX unit for PTF application etc. Avoids using
the storage on the system and it's fast enough, particularly on systems
with only a four drives, to make sense.

Sorry if this sounded a bit like a commercial but the technology is
really cool, finally available to IBM i, and no one seems to be talking
about it.

Jim Oberholtzer
Chief Technical Architect
Agile Technology Architects


On 12/4/2012 9:07 PM, Kirk Goins wrote:

Jim,
Frankly from a performance point I do not like mirroring, maybe on the
720 with the cache it may be fine. Day to day use OK, but PTFs,
Upgrades etc I really like a 4 drive Raid set.

I don't think you can get less than 8Gb these days and as long as they
don't want to run WebQuery, WebSphere etc then 8 will be fine.

Tape if you can get then to spend the money then LTO is the way to go.
I have only sold 1 system with a DAT drive and it worked but compared
to LTO it took forever to do much of anything. the720's can have the
LTO5 internally and LTO4 media has gotten cheaper than 1/4inch media.

IBM will tell ya the 710 was designed for Linux/AIX and I am not sure
you can get a Deskside model

On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 6:52 PM, franz400<franz400@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Looking for recommendations (they already have the BP) for a low
end system, Replacing a couple Advanced 36 systems, one local,
other will be remote via vpn.
Will run programs in s36 mode, but hopefully they will add newer
features (email, advanced printing (pdf), some edi, light web
hosting) Each system currently has 3 - 5 users each.

Considering the 8202 DAT tape drive - i see they now offer a usb
attach.
2- 146 Gig drives mirrored (maybe 4) - (is there a better option?
have occasional need for up to 80 gig useable) tower model (under
a desk)
i7.1
legacy dev tools
sql development tool
system i access
(having trouble finding weblink of software products avail to
review...


How much memory needed to drive system and up to 10 users and
couple printers, with room to expand?
How limiting is the entry 710 vs entry 720?

Since it appears 1/4 inch cartridge tape not supported, am
expecting to ftp the libraries from an intermediary (520) system. Any
other options?

Even though BP will answer these, I appreciate the experience on
this list.

Jim Franz


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