Re: Temporal database feature on IBM i? -- MIDRANGE-L

Matt,

I think the cost is debatable... I'd imagine lots of the theoretical design
ideas can and are shared.

But I'd also imagine that the implementation details are worlds apart.

With DB2 for LUW, you have a DB sitting on top an OS..
With DB2 for i, you have a DB deeply integrated into the OS.

Without DB2 for i adding a virtualization layer specifically to allow for
easy porting of DB2 LUW code, I can't see there being one code base.

Could they do so? I'd imagine they could.  But at what costs?  Not just in
implementation, but in added overhead.

Charles

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 12:45 PM, Matt Olson <Matt.Olson@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

> It should be a two way street, if IBM I has it then LUW should have it to.
>
> I don't understand this fragmented DB2 ecosystem. The two separate
> development teams should be merged into one and they should stay in
> lockstep with each other.
>
> It's gotta be costing IBM a pretty penny to maintain the two database
> platforms separately.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Wilt [mailto:charles.wilt@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 11:42 AM
> To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
> Subject: Re: Temporal database feature on IBM i?
>
> Personally,
>
> I don't think this request will go anywhere....and may even prove
> detrimental.
>
> Sure I'd be great if DB2 for i got everything DB2 for LUW did...but just
> not realistic.
>
> I'd imagine Rochester's DB2 group watches DB2 LUW closely anyway; adding
> what seems to be useful and/or requested to DB2 for i.
>
> But I'd prefer them to be able to add functionality we want/need even if
> DB2 for LUW doesn't have it.  EVI's for instance.
>
> Charles
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Matt Olson <Matt.Olson@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Speaking of which. I am now entering a common feature request to make
> > DB2 for I and DB2 for LUW to have feature parity and always be in sync
> > with each other in regards to new features.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matt Olson [mailto:Matt.Olson@xxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 10:02 AM
> > To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
> > Subject: RE: Temporal database feature on IBM i?
> >
> > Very cool. Why does LUW always get all the neato features first! GRR.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vernon Hamberg [mailto:vhamberg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 1:33 PM
> > To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
> > Subject: Re: Temporal database feature on IBM i?
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > A Google of "db2 temporal" got lots of hits - this one looks like a
> > good start for LUW - others specifically said for Z, which is
> > mainframe -
> >
> >
> > http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/data/library/techarticle/dm-1210temp
> > oraltablesdb2/
> >
> > There are links there to free community editions of DB2 for LUW, and
> > several other items.
> >
> > You didn't say why you're interested, so I'll ass-u-me some things.
> >
> > The IBM i DB2 team is not the LUW team - IBM do try to cross-pollinate
> > some, there are documents about the similarity. But no guarantees that
> > syntax in one flavor of DB2 will be the same in another flavor.
> >
> > If Scott and Mark ever do have their teams work on this, you just
> > can't trust documentation for LUW or Z flavors to be exactly the same
> > as you'll end up using on i. That is the case with several things -
> > folks have posted questions in these lists about some feature they saw
> > in DB2 documentation and it just isn't supported on i or not in exactly
> the same syntax.
> >
> > One thing I am pretty confident about - they will make things line up
> > with the latest ANSI spec for SQL. I don't know if temporal operations
> > were even part of that spec.
> >
> > Besides, some things just aren't needed on i that ARE needed on the
> > other systems. There are settings and knobs in LUW DB2 for managing
> > disk space that we never have to deal with.
> >
> > I know, since I was on the team testing it, that when the new query
> > engine was being done, that the developers looked at some algorithms
> > from the Z flavor - maybe from LUW, as well. But we can't make any
> > assumptions about what the DB team will do on the i side of things.
> >
> > That's a lot of words to say, looking at other flavors may be a matter
> > of going down the yellow brick road - and do NOT pay attention to the
> > man behind the green curtain!!
> >
> > Regards
> > Vern
> >
> > On 5/9/2015 4:19 PM, Matt Olson wrote:
> > > Can you provide the reference for the LUW version of DB2 that has
> > > this
> > functionality?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Alan Campin [mailto:alan0307d@xxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 1:17 PM
> > > To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
> > > Subject: Re: Temporal database feature on IBM i?
> > >
> > > As far as I know the i Series is not getting this capability. It is
> > being made available for Windows and Unix but not for the iSeries.
> Bummer.
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Matt Olson <Matt.Olson@xxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Midrange users,
> > >>
> > >> SQL 2016 will be introducing a temporal database feature which
> > >> appears to be journaling on steroids.
> > >>
> > >> Apparently oracle already has this feature.
> > >>
> > >> Just wondering what is the feature equivalent on DB2 for the i?
> > >>
> > >> Here are screenshots of the feature:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> http://i0.wp.com/blog.engineer-memo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/
> > >> im
> > >> a
> > >> ge59.png
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> http://i1.wp.com/blog.engineer-memo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/
> > >> im
> > >> a
> > >> ge61.png
> > >>
> > >> You basically add a clause to your SQL that says "FOR SYSTEM_TIME
> > >> AS OF 'date/time value'" at the end of your SQL and voila, you get
> > >> a picture of your table(s) as of a particular point in time. No
> > >> reading cryptic squished together fields in journals, just natural
> > >> queryable
> > data!
> > >>
> > >> Not only that you can "stretch" your database to the cloud, so all
> > >> historical data is housed off site in presumably cheaper
> > >> compute/storage infrastructure rather than your expensive
> > >> on-premise database. Which makes sense for historical data since
> > >> you are likely
> > not looking at it very often.
> > >> --
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