Re: [IBMiOSS] Early impressions of Litmis Spaces for Python -- OPENSOURCE

Sure you could keep building tools ad nauseum to provide for this kind of

stuff but haven’t you got better things to do? Aren’t most of your target
audience green screen literate? And those that aren’t won’t want it anyway.

I do envision 5250 command line access eventually being available. I just
need to make sure things are as secure as possible first. The UI goodies I
am talking about extend also into the needs of what PHP/Node.js/Ruby/Python
devs need, so both audiences are being targeted.

Aaron Bartell
litmis.com - Services for open source on IBM i

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Jon Paris <jon.paris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"My end goal is to make the experience rich/specific/restricted so the

need
for a 5250 session would only be required if you are actually doing green
screen programming. “

I can think of many reasons for wanting 5250 that have nothing to do wth
green screen programming - such as building and deploying an RPG program as
a web service or stored procedure. Sure you could keep building tools ad
nauseum to provide for this kind of stuff but haven’t you got better things
to do? Aren’t most of your target audience green screen literate? And
those that aren’t won’t want it anyway.

Just thinking out load.

Jon Paris

www.partner400.com
www.SystemiDeveloper.com

On Jul 28, 2016, at 10:16 AM, Aaron Bartell <aaronbartell@xxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

What problem once they are “~on~” are you trying to solve Aaron? What

limits beyond normal user profile controlled access restrictions do you
need?

Good question, let me detail what I have and then maybe others can fill

in

with things they see I've missed:

- I've set the security level to 40.
- Users are created as USRCLS(*USER) INLMNU(*SIGNOFF) LMTCPB(*NO). Today
users aren't supplied their passwords because I only allow SSH public key
auth, though if I allowed 5250 access I'd have to change that.
- Three libraries are created and I have object creation set to deny
*PUBLIC access by default (can't remember where I set that off hand)
- Locked down ports to specific users so USR1 can't start an app on a

port

USR2 "owns".
- Modified IFS settings to default perms to rwx------ (zero "group" or
"other" authority existing or newly created files)

In short, protecting users from themselves.

My end goal is to make the experience rich/specific/restricted so the

need

for a 5250 session would only be required if you are actually doing green
screen programming. For example, instead of providing WRKACTJOB access I
would have a UI dashboard widget that would display that users jobs,

logs,

etc, in a more elegant way than 5250.

Aaron Bartell
litmis.com - Services for open source on IBM i

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Jon Paris <jon.paris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

What problem once they are “~on~” are you trying to solve Aaron? What
limits beyond normal user profile controlled access restrictions do you
need?

Jon Paris

www.partner400.com
www.SystemiDeveloper.com

On Jul 28, 2016, at 9:25 AM, Aaron Bartell <aaronbartell@xxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

Could you not enable the 5250 option in the new web-based Nav stuff

Aaron?

Definitely could do that, but my primary problem is once people are

~on~

the machine. I was actually planning to re-write Pete Helgren's

web5250

in

Node.js, but now I'm struggling to find the source as www.web5250.com

seems

to no longer exist. Though this might be the code that's now being

hosted

under a different person: https://github.com/paulomcnally/web5250

Aaron Bartell
litmis.com - Services for open source on IBM i

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 6:45 PM, Jon Paris <jon.paris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

"I have the server fairly locked down, and users have
authority only to their stuff, but it's what I don't know that keeps

me

from opening 5250. Would welcome input.”

Could you not enable the 5250 option in the new web-based Nav stuff

Aaron?

Jon Paris

www.partner400.com
www.SystemiDeveloper.com

On Jul 26, 2016, at 1:05 PM, Aaron Bartell <aaronbartell@xxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

Great feedback. There's a couple things I can help with to make your

life

better.

1- You can hook up your own shell (i.e. Terminal on Mac). See

directions

here(n1) on how to get your ssh key into your Litmis Space (or just

put

it

in ~/.ssh/authorized_keys if you know how).

2 - You can hook up an alternate editor that communicates over

SSH/SFTP. I

use SublimeText3 + an SFTP plugin(n2) on a regular basis (very

reliable

and

fast with file saves). Another option I am dying to try is
http://code.visualstudio.com (free) which also has an SFTP plugin. I

also

found a NodePad++ article(n2.2) for those on Windows that like that

tool.

I know Liam Allan uses NotePad++ to edit his RPG in the IFS (and I

thought

I heard he created an RPG syntax highlighter for NotePadd++; that kid
probably never sleeps :-)

n1 - http://bit.ly/litmis-spaces-myownshell
n2 - https://wbond.net/sublime_packages/sftp
n2.2 -

https://jasoncarman.wordpress.com/2015/01/17/configuring-sftp-with-notepad/

3 - Working on the native side has been a hot item. Each Litmis

Space

is

configured with three DB2 libraries (schemas) where you can store

your

compiled object. The challenge has been how to get them (RPG/CL/etc)
compiled. Last week I created the "Poor Mans Compile RPG from PASE"
short-term project(n3) to address this issue for another user. I had

to

create it because I learned the "system" command wouldn't work in a

chroot

environment(n4). Tony and I got to talking and created the

db2util(n5)

project that will aid in communicating with QSYS.LIB from a shell

(inside

and outside of chroot). I don't yet have db2util in Litmis Spaces

(maybe

in two weeks?). And the "Poor Mans Compile RPG from PASE" currently

only

has a Node.js implementation (hoping for a Python code donation pull
request).

n3 - https://bitbucket.org/litmis/poormanscompilerpgfrompase <---

short

term project, not meant to exist forever.
n4 - http://bit.ly/system-command-doesnt-work-in-chroot
n5 - https://bitbucket.org/litmis/db2util <---- long term project

On final note, I've not done a public hosted IBM i where everyone had
access to 5250. I have the server fairly locked down, and users have
authority only to their stuff, but it's what I don't know that keeps

me

from opening 5250. Would welcome input.

Aaron Bartell
litmis.com - Services for open source on IBM i

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:31 AM, John Yeung <

gallium.arsenide@xxxxxxxxx

wrote:

[I hope you'll forgive the bloggish nature of this post. Given the
intended audience, I felt this was the best venue available.]

Overall, Litmis Spaces for Python has been a positive experience. In
some ways, it's almost unbelievably slick; but it's also rough

around

the edges.

The slick parts: Using your account requires no software on your end
other than a modern browser. (I've personally used Firefox and

Chrome

successfully; I haven't tried any others.) There is a browser-based
SSH login shell that reminds me very much of text-based Unix or

Linux

shells. There is a quite beautiful browser-based GUI editor (or
"light" IDE).

Other nice things about it: So far the best thing is that Aaron
Bartell has been enthusiastic and responsive in trying to address

any

issues and improve the experience and utility of the whole system.

Now for the rough edges. The shell is a little flaky when it comes

to

screen-related issues. Things disappear irretrievably when the line
you're typing gets too long, instead of cleanly wrapping. (All the
more so because the default command prompt includes the full
specification of your current directory, which is already most of a
screen width if you're exploring OSS stuff, thanks to directory
conventions chosen by IBM.) The "more" command is too glitchy to be

of

any use.

Somehow the JOE text editor seems to be able to handle

screen-oriented

operation, but it's no vi or vim. Some would argue that's a good
thing, but it would be nice to also have vi or a suitable clone, so
that traditional Unix folk can feel right at home and not have to
learn Yet Another Text Editor.

What about the GUI editor? It's very pretty, but it has its own
glitches and weird behavior. Sometimes it goes offline for no

apparent

reason (even though the shell is still active and working normally).
Sometimes some of the tabs on the left become unavailable, as do

some

of the menu options. Maybe this is related to going offline?

When it comes to using Python itself, the interactive interpreter is
severely hampered by its failure to recognize the backspace key. You
can sort of work around it by using Ctrl+H, but it is not a pleasant
experience, as you can imagine.

Anyway, the bugs and glitches are mostly annoyances, and I can deal
with them. Some of them might be cured by relatively simple
configuration changes. What I'm really missing from Litmis Spaces is
an easy way to work on the native side, in QSYS.LIB. To me, that's
what makes an IBM i an IBM i. Yes, there is the itoolkit bridge, but
it's not that pleasant or easy-to-use (by Python standards), and

more

importantly, it's inherently limited in bandwidth. You can't easily
whip up an RPG program to communicate with your Python program on
Litmis Spaces. (In principle, you could write some RPG code into an
IFS file and then send the appropriate CL commands through itoolkit

to

compile it; but even if that worked, you would be using neither RDi
nor SEU to write this code, and the whole thing would be like

building

a ship in a bottle.)

I was really looking forward to working with my pub400.com account,
precisely because it's a QSYS.LIB environment first and foremost,

but

progress on the Python setup there has been stalled. So right now,
pub400.com feels like an IBM i without Python, and Litmis Spaces

for

Python feels like Python without an IBM i.

John Y.
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