RE: Impossible to even think about rewriting in RPG

Just because it is new is not a good reason to change.

That is true... too many times the baby gets thrown out with the water in IT.

Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:35:23 -0400
From: raul@xxxxxxxxxx
To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Impossible to even think about rewriting in RPG

I tried, I read this list, and I have the feeling that all the time
saved in this "great tool" will be wasted trying to get it to run and
fixing its problems.
SEU for RPG, and Emacs for web do a good job.
With the new V7r1 I instaled RPGNextGen, and it seems to work. (it didnt
with the old AS server)
I plan to try Rational, as soon as I get the new machine running, I have
problems instaling the VeriSign certificate: the utility to connect the
web server gives an error an creates an "APAR". I'm waiting for our IBM
support to analize the problem.

My users see the aplications, not the tools I use, and they are very
satisfied with the results.
Just because it is new is not a good reason to change.

john e wrote:

Why??
Think of your clients.Don't you think they will wonder why you as a professional are using SEU for text editing??
How are you gonna explain it's a modern machine when you seem to be stuck in green-screen editing?

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Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:30:39 -0400
From: raul@xxxxxxxxxx
To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Impossible to even think about rewriting in RPG

I completly disagree.

I just came back from a conference on the use of IPv6, where I spocke
with one of the analists of the Internet Addres Registry, to get a block
of addresses to configure the AS with IPv6 and use it in the internal
network.
I'm developing all user programs using a web interface (CGIDEV2),
leading a small team in the process, puting in service programs the
"common logic" defining al "databases" using SQL, with relational
integrity and triggers.

And I still use SEU

john e wrote:

Give it up, Mihael.

Anyone who is still using SEU, really, REALLY does NOT want to learn, anything...

I gave it up already.I don't try to convince my fellow i "programmers" anymore with reason and arguments.It's simply too frustrating, and even dangerous at some times (yes really),as some can become really emotional about it.
I have lots of knowledge and experience outside of "i", such as Java, Web, etc.Not to mention ILE and /free RPG.
I see my "i" experience as a nice "niche".It's only downhill and nothing to expected anymore from this platform (as it was 10 years ago aready).I'm amazed about the inertia surrounding AS/400, or "i", whatever.All thanks to those spaghetti programmers (can't rip modules out, only replace it all).
The platform is declining, and as a freelance developer, with extensive RPG experience anda lot of other knowledge, i foresee that as long as the platform is not gone (lets say atleast 10 years), i can earn a decent salary.
Anyhow, i don't have much competition in this market.And many in this list either.

----------------------------------------

From: Mihael.Schmidt@xxxxxxxxxxx
To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Impossible to even think about rewriting in RPG
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 06:30:18 +0000

"What do folks use other than SEU and PDM for their ILE development? " : Is use RPG Next Gen Editor for all my software available on rpgnextgen.com.

At work we are using RDP and the reason we are using it here is NOT that it automatically creates some boilerplate code. I never use it for that. Just having an editor which behave more like a "normal" editor and seeing more that 16 lines or so is reason enough for me. But you get so much more like the outline view and the errors of your compile directly in a view with clickable error lines to go the error, etc... No more searching through compile listings. Development is so much faster.

Mihael

-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Yeung
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:30 PM
To: RPG programming on the IBM i / System i
Subject: Re: Impossible to even think about rewriting in RPG

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 7:45 AM, <Tommy.Holden@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Until like 3 months ago I used SEU/PDM for doing ILE programming complete
with service programs, modules & APIs. Blaming the IDE is a red herring.
It's a desire to make the effort that is to blame.

Thanks,
Tommy Holden

I'm not *blaming* the IDE. I'm saying that for me, in my workplace,
in my opinion, it's not the best use of my time. Of course you can do
ILE programming with SEU and PDM. And if you do, great. I am all for
it. But it *does* have a cost, and is not only related to
willingness.

Look at Java for a much more stark illustration of the cost of an
inferior development environment. How many Java programmers who use
Notepad or EDTF or some such are anywhere near as productive as Java
programmers using Eclipse? There is a very real cost to having to
type boatloads and boatloads of boilerplate yourself. While you are
doing that, you're not really contributing value, you're not really
working on the business problem. You are typing (or copying and
pasting) lots and lots and lots of stuff that either the compiler or
the IDE should be able to do for you. It's a bloody waste of time.

For me, personally, I have not seen ILE code that is *so much better*
than OPM code that there is a compelling argument to switch. At least
at my workplace, the benefit is very close to zero. And the cost is
much greater than zero. If there were some demonstration that there
would be significant benefit (modularity, maintainability,
performance, functionality), or some way to mitigate the cost (less
clunky development process), then of course it would be worth
revisiting.

And this is why I have asked very plainly: What do folks use other
than SEU and PDM for their ILE development? Three months ago, you
switched yourself, so clearly there must be something better.

Note: I know ILE provides greater functionality. The benefits that
are obvious to me are embedded SQL and recursion. So of course when
those things make the programming much easier, it is worth the
overhead of the extra coding required for ILE. But honestly, the
stuff we do at my workplace very rarely calls for these features.

John
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