Re: why rpg and not cobol -- RPG400-L

Hee hee. Did you see the 2nd comment?

"Still better then (sic) justin bieber"

Almost snorted my diet coke out the nose.

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Scott Klement <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:

An IBM 7094! Want to hear it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk

On 4/18/2013 2:38 PM, Vernon Hamberg wrote:

Sheesh, Vern - get the song right!

Hey, I even looked it up and still got it wrong! too much snow!

OK, it's "Bicycle Built for Two" HAL sings it - and it was programmed at
Harvard or MIT on a PDP-8 or PDP-11, according to a book I read.

Some source points to a different unit - but it was done in 1961.

Ah the fluid nature of history!

Vern

On 4/18/2013 2:29 PM, Vernon Hamberg wrote:

And have you programmed "Sidewalks of New York" on it yet?

"Daisy, Daisy, Give me your answer, do!"

On 4/18/2013 1:19 PM, Paul Therrien wrote:

Well I'm sticking with my DEC PDP 11!
It's the soul of a new machine!

.. oh.. wait...

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:

rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Raymond B. Dunn

Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:19 AM
To: RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)
Subject: RE: why rpg and not cobol

My mistake, then.

The reality is to even call today's languages the same name as the

languages we used 25 years ago, is shortsighted. I would say it is equally
shortsighted to think that they will not continue to evolve.

RPG in 2050 will probably be very different from today's RPG-free.

Right now I do not code any native I/O in either COBOL or RPG.

Strictly SQL. So to compare System/36 RPG II to embedded SQL, procedure
laden, RPG-free, is like comparing a horse and carriage to a Ferrari.

Obviously C and java will be around as long as there is software that

uses it. The same can be said for RPG and COBOL.

I apologize for my negative response, but the endless "RPG is going

away, COBOL is going away, IBM is going away" banter gets old.

-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jerry C. Adams
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:07 AM
To: 'RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)'
Subject: RE: why rpg and not cobol

I think Michael was speaking with his tongue firmly planted in his

cheek.

The Fortran and Pascal lines were dead giveaways. At least, that's

the way I read it. Plus, having met Michael at COMMON, I wouldn't mistake
him for a thirtysomething, much less a twentysomething.

Jerry C. Adams
IBM i Programmer/Analyst
Line up alphabetically by height. - Casey Stengel
--
Home Office: 615-832-2730
email: midrange@xxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Raymond B. Dunn
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 10:49 AM
To: RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)
Subject: RE: why rpg and not cobol

Let me guess. You're under 30 and think that those of us who have

been successfully doing our jobs for longer than you've been alive don't
know anything.

I hate to say it, but you sound like I did when I was 20.

That's not a good thing.
-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael Ryan
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 10:22 AM
To: RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)
Subject: Re: why rpg and not cobol

There are a lot more new computer installations that are using COBOL

and RPG. C and Java seem to be tailing off. I don't even know if there's a
market for those skills. FORTRAN is the real up and comer. And watch for
Pascal...Turbo Pascal is the leader right now.

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Raymond B. Dunn
<Raymond.Dunn@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:

Impressive post except for the shortsighted statement:

"Note to people debating RPG vs COBOL: if you are in your 50's or 60's
that's OK - retirement is soon. If younger, RUN to learn another
language. I think it will be amazing how quickly they will both be a
footnote in history!"

I seem to remember this being said in 1990. It is as incorrect today
as it was then.

Wake up. COBOL and RPG will be here in 2100. I cannot be sure of the
same for C and Java.

-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stone, Joel
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 9:59 AM
To: RPG programming on the IBM i / System i
Subject: RE: why rpg and not cobol

OK so there were dozens of responses but no right answers :)

The reason why RPG is the preferred language on iseries (and not

COBOL):

follow the money!

IBM was bringing thousands of organizations into the IBM 360 computer
age back in the 1960s & 1970s, only to see them move to the

"B.U.N.C.H."

three years later - where they could run COBOL for less $.

(Burroughs, Univac, NCR, Control Data, or Honeywell)

IBM had a choice way back when.

Guide clients to purchase IBM hardware and develop in COBOL ... and
then the clients would be running a "commodity" platform where they
could more easily jump ship in a few years;

OR

Guide clients to RPG - where the client was then CAPTIVE since no
other machine had a serious RPG compiler.

It's the same marketing philosophy as Gillete razors, Apple OS, and
Lionel model trains. Give away the shaver and the client cant go
elsewhere - they HAVE to buy your razors/software/train-cars!

COBOL was governed by a standards organization and also the federal
government had their FIPS standards - so IBMs hands were tied
regarding COBOL. With RPG, IBM owned it all and they could do
whatever they wanted to keep RPG from becoming a commodity.

Simple as that.

RPG has HUGE advantages over COBOL on iseries. Mostly not due to the
language itself, but the fact that so many users have created so many
widgets that users share knowledge, experience, books, and even code.

But RPG on iseries does offer the following huge language benefits
over
COBOL:

Functions: with RPG one can create their own functions. COBOL doesn't
offer this, which is 100 nails in its coffin.

READE: in RPG this is one line of code; in COBOL it can be dozens of
lines of messy code (load the keys, read the file until keys not =,
then check the last record read for matching keys)

Note to people debating RPG vs COBOL: if you are in your 50's or 60's
that's OK - retirement is soon. If younger, RUN to learn another
language. I think it will be amazing how quickly they will both be a
footnote in history!

-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:47 PM
To: RPG programming on the IBM i / System i
Subject: why rpg and not cobol

Hi,

I would like to know why RPG is the principal language on the i. Has
it always been so since the days of the AS400 and beyond? Is it just
an IBM thing?
Thanks
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