Re: Software fixes for older releases -- WDSCI-L

Jim,

Why do you say that? I have no way of veryfying the actual numbers, but let's take a stab at it. If there are 50+ boxes with a WDS license for every RDi license, IBM would actually be way ahead of the game! Asuuming a $100 increase per WDS license, that would more than cover the "seat" price differential for RDi. I suspect that the number of WDS licenses vs. RDi is even higher.

-mark

On 1/31/2018 1:48 PM, Jim Oberholtzer wrote:

What you are suggesting would take about $800/seat revenue out of IBMs
hands.

Also due to the changes (way back) in IBM's accounting that makes it much
harder to assign sales.

Let me take another tack: Have you advocated that Microsoft give a full
copy of Studio away (or add $100) for every user license on the Server
platform? Do you think they would consider that? I know the answer, hell
no. So why should IBM do that?

--
Jim Oberholtzer
Agile Technology Architects

-----Original Message-----
From: WDSCI-L [mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of mlazarus
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 12:35 PM
To: Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio Client for
System i& iSeries<wdsci-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Software fixes for older releases

Hi Jim,

The main argument being put forth is a very old argument and doesn't apply
anymore. Let's look at the situation then and now.

Then:
- PC's were underpowered at that time for the product to work well.
- Midrange shops tend to be conservative about trying new software products
until they are tried and true and have gained traction in the community.
- Few midrange programmers were familiar with graphical IDE's.

Now:
- PC's have come a long way. No problem with CPU power or RAM running RDi.
- RDi has been tested in the field. and the features are far better than
CODE/400 was.
- Many more programmers are familiar with graphical IDE's or at the very
least are will to try RDi.

When I refer to "bundling" it, IBM does not have to take a revenue hit.
If the price for WDS were to be raised very slightly for all when purchasing
the box, the powers that be would not blink to shell out the extra $100 or
so. For the programming staff to request it later, or if it's a separate
line item, it will often encounter resistance.

This opinion reflects my experience in several shops over quite a few
years.

-mark

On 1/31/2018 8:54 AM, Jim Oberholtzer wrote:

That was the argument for WSCDi back in the day. Bundle it and they
will use it. Very few of us did. Now that RDi has its own revenue
stream, development on the product has increased exponentially and
along with it, usage.

RDi has a model that is roughly based on the system with concurrent
user pricing if you purchase the correct license. If that works for
you go for it. It does not work for most shops.

My main thing is system programming so I remain in CL 90% of the time
with the balance being in SQL (and I do it badly I might add). Most
of my RPG is from code published in articles (thanks Scott and
Carsten!) so I don't do much there. I started using Code/400 and it's

successors a long time ago.

I still use RDi (and pay for it) because even for the little bit
(comparatively to all of you) that I do, it's far more productive than

SEU.

In the end it's about revenue to IBM. In order for the product to

survive,

it needs money. I don't disagree with the Lite version, but earlier
comments have hit the nail on the head. If 80% of what I use is in
the Lite version, why buy the full version? I'll just find another
way to do the 20% I don't get. That equals significant revenue loss
for IBM and a reduction in the development pace. Now that IBM
outsourced the development to Help Systems I wait to find out how that

will work, and what happens to pricing.

I'm not optimistic.

--
Jim Oberholtzer
Agile Technology Architects

-----Original Message-----
From: WDSCI-L [mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
mlazarus
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 9:07 PM
To: Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio Client
for System i& iSeries<wdsci-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Software fixes for older releases

Jim,

That's why I mentioned bundling it with the development tools.
That's licensed to the system, not by user. The number of installs
(probably the vast majority of systems sold) would more than pay for
RDi development and support.

-mark

On 1/30/2018 12:45 PM, Jim Oberholtzer wrote:

Mark,

I understand the sentiment, however that ship sailed a long time ago.
Each of the IBM products has to stand on its own financially now, so
bundling the RDi into the complier would not fit the new economic
model. I would not look for IBM to move that direction ever again.

Furthermore assuming P level tiered pricing, the P10 compiler (most
of the machines out there) is user based now, so let's say IBM does
bundle the RDi in with the compiler. Many of you (maybe most) have a
compiler license for
3 to 5 compilers, meaning concurrent compile operations. RDi would
bump the cost way too high since now you have to buy a compiler
license

for each

developer, instead of all of them sharing a small number of them.

Even

if IBM splits the difference with you and charges $500 for the RDi
and then the extra cost of the compiler (ILE btw, the OPM compiler
would be much
more) would become very prohibitive.

Remember IBM does not make much money on the hardware. It's now all
the software where the revenue is.

--
Jim Oberholtzer
Agile Technology Architects

-----Original Message-----
From: WDSCI-L [mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
mlazarus
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 11:14 AM
To: Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio Client
for System i& iSeries<wdsci-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Software fixes for older releases

Jim, Brian,

I would much rather that IBM nominally bumps the compiler or WDS
bundle price (maybe by $100?) for everyone and includes RDi as part
of either of those (most likely it would be WDS).

-mark

On 1/30/2018 9:43 AM, Jim Oberholtzer wrote:

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment:

There are at least two great open source editors out there. Orion
which is free (5733-OPS) and Liam Allan has published his version
called

ILEditor.

See: http://worksofbarry.com/ileditor

So now the question: Do you want IBM spending time/money on a lite
version of RDi, taking away resources from the full RDi product, or
would you like them to concentrate solely on the full RDi product
and allow the open source community to develop your lite versions?

I vote open source.

--
Jim Oberholtzer
Agile Technology Architects

-----Original Message-----
From: WDSCI-L [mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Brian Parkins
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 7:54 AM
To: Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio Client
for System i& iSeries<wdsci-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Software fixes for older releases

There is an request (RFE) for an RDi-Lite version which would be
free or at least much cheaper. It's status is currently "Under
Consideration." So at least IBM is thinking about it.

You can add your vote at:

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_I
D
=
1
08558

developerWorks requires an IBM ID for which registration is free.

Michael Quigley
Computer Services
The Way International

Thx for highlighting this RFE - it has my vote!

Brian.

--
This is the Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development
Studio Client for System i& iSeries (WDSCI-L) mailing list To post a
message
email: WDSCI-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list
options,
visit: https://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/wdsci-l
or email: WDSCI-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a
moment to review the archives at https://archive.midrange.com/wdsci-l.

--
This is the Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development
Studio Client for System i& iSeries (WDSCI-L) mailing list To post a
message
email: WDSCI-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list
options,
visit: https://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/wdsci-l
or email: WDSCI-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a
moment to review the archives at https://archive.midrange.com/wdsci-l.

--
This is the Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio
Client for System i& iSeries (WDSCI-L) mailing list To post a message
email: WDSCI-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list
options,
visit: https://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/wdsci-l
or email: WDSCI-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at
https://archive.midrange.com/wdsci-l.