Re: native PHP in V5R4???

["albartell" <albartell@xxxxxxxxx>]

>Constantly sparing over "techie" nits will not help.

I read your posts and I don't see how what you are saying is any different
from what we are saying. You are promoting technologies, we are promoting
technologies. The both have their good sides and bad sides. Using the most
widely excepted technologies doesn't mean it is the right fit for a business
(which is what I am gathering from you). 

Maybe the approach we need to take is sell solutions to customers and not
technology. Tell the customer what you can deliver, how long it will take,
and what kind of SLA (Service Level Agreement) you can wrap around it. 

Aaron Bartell

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Dave Odom
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 6:11 PM
To: web400@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [WEB400] native PHP in V5R4???

Joe,

When time permits, I'd like to see those bench marks that I can look at
them and see how the experiments were constructed?   Or were they from
someone's actual experience?    That's valid, I'd just like to see how
their experiments were constructed.  

What you claim may be true on the iSeries the way the optimizer and SQL
work, but I have other experiences on the regular DB2s and ORACLE (possible
exception with IMS DC[lighting]).  So, what I say can hardly
be passed off as patently false in all cases on all platforms.   But
this is "niting" again.

>> And somehow, in your perception of "the big picture", the fact that
the  iSeries has BOTH tremendously fast native access and ANSI standard SQL
access means that the iSeries has no future.  I cannot glean any
sense from this statement.<<      

You're not really reading and understanding what I'm saying then.

>> The truth is that most anything you can do in SQL outside of a few
vendor-specific extensions you can do on the iSeries. <<    

 Probably,  using its SQL.

>> And then, when you need extra performance, you can go to native I/O.
 In fact, RPG is the only
language I know of that allows you to access your database both ways,
which in my mind makes it leading edge!<<     

Not a good enough selling point for those outside the iSeries world looking
at an RDBMS and writing the checks.

I really wish you could see what I see and the fact I'm trying to help the
platform (and therefore you and others) compete in the RDBMS market place.
Constantly sparing over "techie" nits will not help.  

Dave


>>> joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 2/23/2006 20:53:12 >>>
> From: Dave Odom
> 
> I wondered when you'd chime in.  Let me know when you are ready to 
> tackle the big picture of the iSeries perception and ways to have it 
> taken seriously when competing against is internationally recognized 
> RDBMS rivals.

I'm not "chiming in".  I'm just countering your patently false statement
that SQL is anywhere near as fast as native I/O for transaction processing.
The fact is that native I/O is much faster, period.  Until you admit that
fact up front, the rest of your "big picture" is a waste of time.

You constantly try to edge in statements like "SQL is VERY fast when the
appropriate indexes... la la la la la".  You ignore benchmarks that prove
that SQL is up to 10 times as slow as native access on record-by-record
access.  This constant contradiction of reality removes all credibility from
anything else you say.


> And since I have been around for a long time and have faced the big 
> picture and realized what makes a platform have a future, I try to
get
> the faithful to recognize the "elephant in the living room".

And somehow, in your perception of "the big picture", the fact that the
iSeries has BOTH tremendously fast native access and ANSI standard SQL
access means that the iSeries has no future.  I cannot glean any sense from
this statement.

The truth is that most anything you can do in SQL outside of a few
vendor-specific extensions you can do on the iSeries.  And then, when you
need extra performance, you can go to native I/O.  In fact, RPG is the only
language I know of that allows you to access your database both ways, which
in my mind makes it leading edge!


Joe


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