Re: RPG and AJAX was->RE: How do I create a webpagethat.... -- WEB400

<Bob>
Before I rebut, let me say that I think JSPs with an RPG IV backend is the
best solution going today. Its not for everyone, but in my view it's the
best one around. But AJAX will compete with it, and to the point where in a
year or less I will probably replace my JSP/RPG perspective with AJAX/RPG.
</Bob>

I am not entirely sure I follow you here. How would using AJAX give you a
definitive decision on what to use on the backend? Something still has to
output the HTML to the browser. In my mind if you like JSP and RPG for front
end and controller respectively then the introduction of AJAX really doesn't
change that. Are you planning on outputting the html with RPG now?

>Ajax has been around for years. It is just that an author (James Garrett)
wrote an article on it a little over a year ago and decided to coin the
phrase AJAX.

Just to add a little to that, there was lack of support in browsers for
awhile that held back the remoting opportunities (say AJAX). 


Aaron Bartell

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Bob Cozzi
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 2:30 PM
To: 'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject: Re: [WEB400] RPG and AJAX was->RE: How do I create a
webpagethat....

Joe,
>>My point is that AJAX is a technology looking for a reason.  
I'll refrain from my initial reaction to this comment, but in a nutshell,
huh???

Before I rebut, let me say that I think JSPs with an RPG IV backend is the
best solution going today. Its not for everyone, but in my view it's the
best one around. But AJAX will compete with it, and to the point where in a
year or less I will probably replace my JSP/RPG perspective with AJAX/RPG.

Ajax has been around for years. It is just that an author (James Garrett)
wrote an article on it a little over a year ago and decided to coin the
phrase AJAX.
Suddenly a light bulb turned on in everyone's head. Granted that bulb did
not make them AJAX experts, but at least it is helping to stir interest in
GUI-izing applications--specifically for the 400. 

The point about it being difficult technology is ridiculous. It is difficult
but if you're a programmer and not just a code-stealing-clerk you can figure
it out.
APIs, C, MI and other things are complex too, and I see your point (or was
it
Scott's) that the right tool for the right job should be advocated, unless
it is complex? 

Difficulty is the eye of the beholder. If I say that I don't advocate Java
because it is too complex, slow and resource hungry, Joe might think
otherwise because he's familiar with Java and lives with it daily. 
For me, CGI/RPGIV and now AJAX are where I live now and things aren't all
that complicated.

-Bob Cozzi
www.RPGxTools.com
RPG xTools - Enjoy programming again.


-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces+cozzi=rpgiv.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:web400-bounces+cozzi=rpgiv.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joe Pluta
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 1:07 PM
To: 'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject: Re: [WEB400] RPG and AJAX was->RE: How do I create a
webpagethat....

> From: Bob Cozzi
> 
> Joe, what's your point? This is like saying the grass is green and the 
> sky is blue. You can say this about everything, from JAVA/JSPs to 
> RPGIV to CL to C/C++ to Python to Perle to PHP.
> What's the point?

My point is that AJAX is a technology looking for a reason.  There just
aren't many places where it's really necessary.  Yet it will be overused
because right now it's bright and shiny.


> Ajax is here to stay it is the next cool toy/tool to play with.

Basically, this makes my point.  There is a certain class of programmer who
will push AJAX because it's cool, regardless of the utility of the
technology in the business case.  It's the new hammer syndrome.


> It will displace
> a lot of Java/JSPs that's for certain, but it will also enable people 
> who shied away from the JSP or similar model to get into web 
> development using just JavaScript and RPG IV (or pick the host 
> language you prefer most).

I disagree.  Nothing in AJAX displaces JSP, since you can use AJAX in JSP.
In fact, AJAX is an interesting way to make use of integrating JSP and CGI.
Unfortunately what AJAX does is move server logic to the client by pushing
it into JavaScript.  Of all our currently available tools, JavaScript is by
far the hardest to debug.  Using it to turn a web browser into a thick
client is a bad idea except in those instances where you specifically need
thick client functionality.


> I see 80 percent of RPG IV code out there is poorly written due to 
> rushing through it or perhaps indifference on the part of the 
> programmer. I see this in most applications in other languages as 
> well. "Make it work for my specific situation and nothing more."

This is a non sequitur.  Tailoring a design to a specific business
requirement does not lead to bad code. 


> I just helped out a hospital software company and the Ajax 
> implementation of their hospital registration and lab coding software 
> is killer now compared to the old green screens. And it runs faster!

And my guess is you could have done the vast majority of the code without
AJAX.


> Lest we forget--5250 use interactive CPW where as Ajax uses CGI which 
> is batch CPW.

Bob, you're all over the map.  JSP is batch as well.  In fact, any HTML
generation short of the old WebFacing is batch.


Again, just in case I'm not being clear: AJAX is not a bad technology.  It
has uses.  However, it should be a business decision as to whether to use
AJAX, not a decision based on "coolness".

Joe 

--
This is the Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries (WEB400) mailing list To post a
message email: WEB400@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list
options,
visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/web400
or email: WEB400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at
http://archive.midrange.com/web400.