Re: [XPOST from WDSCI-L] Webfacing out, EGL in -- WEB400

We are one System i company using Python for mission critical apps. Yes, writing order entry with it soon. A couple other companies (although I don't know if they use the i) called Google and Yahoo also get by with it.

You asked...

-Jim

Joe Pluta wrote:

David Gibbs wrote:

Joe Pluta wrote:

Not sure what your point is here. I don't consider basic PHP to be a
viable production web application environment

Lots of people think otherwise.

<sigh> I really didn't want to go here, but we may as well get this straightened out. The fact that lots of people use PHP is more because it's what most ISPs support rather than any intrinsic value of the language. Popularity is hardly a measure of quality.

Lots of people use Visual Basic. Doesn't make it good. Just makes it cheap and easy.

For those IBM i based organizations, who use PHP, and do not need / want Zend Enterprise can get support for PHP from the community ... like most other, non i, organizations that use PHP.

And my point is that people who use the System i are unlikely to be the type who commit mission critical systems to open source and web support. They aren't the types to buy the ":lots of people use this" argument either.

I'm less sanguine about the support received from open source communities. Sometimes it's very good, sometimes not so good. That's
why when I talk about PHP as part of an enterprise environment, I am
not considering an environment where PHP.net is your primary resource. Once you go down the pure open source route, then why not Ruby? Or Python? The possibilities are endless!

Yes, and lots of organizations are doing just that.

How many i shops are using Python for mission critical systems? In fact, how many companies do you know using open source for mission critical systems that *don't* have some sort of extended support contract in place?

Some companies may be willing to do that, and I'm not saying it's wrong. But I'd guess that a lot of companies are unwilling to commit
their mission critical systems to a web-supported open source development environment.

Considering how many companies DO use PHP ... I _think_ that statement is incorrect. I don't have hard numbers to back my opinion up though.

I doubt it, David. I'd love to hear about companies without support contracts using PHP for, say, their primary order entry system - or indeed for anything other than their basic web presence.

And that's where the discussion of Java EE vs. RPG-CGI vs. PHP vs. EGL comes into play.

When it comes down to it ... EGL is just *ONE* way for an organization to get an application on the web. It's not the _BEST_ solution, it's not the _ONLY_ solution (although it is the newest) ... it's just ONE solution.
Certainly it's only one solution. And I always say use the best tool for the job. But PHP?

There are many others. PHP, JSP, Python, Ruby, CGI, .net, etc. Each have their pluses & minuses. Organizations need to evaluate their needs, consider their resources, review the tools, and make an informed decision.

Okay. Give some reasons to use PHP other than "lots of people use it". Remember, that same argument then gives you Visual Basic, or Perl. Lots of people using Perl. And the "lots of programmers" argument is the same. Also, before you go to the "large library of software" be sure you're talking about the right version of PHP - there's lots more software for PHP 4 than there is for PHP 5.

On the flip side, there are some good reasons to not use PHP. Heck, PHP won't even support UNICODE until PHP 6 is generally available. That's your mission critical web application language?

Joe