Syd,
Sorry to take so long to respond.
You're preaching to the choir here. The fact remains MS and their
minions have marketed the crap out of Windoz and IBM and its followers,
have not,... IN THE MARKETPLACE (yes the i followers have on here and at
i gatherings but there you're preaching to the converted). Unless the i
and its capabilities are marketed IN THE MARKETPLACE like Micksoft does,
the platform is doomed. The i will be absorbed into the p or converted
to Windoz.
I saw the same thing happen with OS/2 and MVS/DB2 in about 1997. IBM
had created, with a Utility, a VERY sophisticated OS/2 to real DB2(MVS)
Customer Information System. When I installed it, the first stage
transition as part of the contract was to convert all the OS/2 front end
stuff to Windoz (IBM i-ers take note). The second part of the
transition was to move the backend to AIX DB2.
IBM i-ers note two things... they didn't even CONSIDER the AS/400.
This superb OS/2-MVS DB2 app was migrated to Windoz presentation layer
and DB2 AIX database layer. This is kinda how I predict the i's apps
will go except some will go to a backend of ORACLE on Wndoz or some
flavor of *ix and within the next 5-8 years, perhaps sooner.
But, there is still time guys and gals, but the clock is ticking at
above the earth speeds (faster than on the ground).
Dave
Dave
"Dr. Syd Nicholson" <sydnic@xxxxxxxxxx> 8/18/2008 13:26 >>>
The "i" has a perceived expense that does not bear out in practice. It
is
considerably less expensive than Intel to run. The "i" does not need
armies
of people chasing around after it whenever it coughs, or people
changing its
diaper every time it hiccups. The "i" sits quietly in the corner and
gets on
with the job. In the Intel arena, the everybody works for the computer
like
slaves or ants around a nest, the "i" on the other hand, works for the
business and lets the humans have control!
I have a client - in Aberdeen, Scotland - that runs a 24/7 shop. The
have 5
"i" systems, from Model 170 to Model 515. Each system has different
job. On
this site there are no (repeat - NO) Windoze servers. The "i" does
everything (file server, print server, fax server, web server,
firewall,
internet gateway, mail server, dhcp, dns, etc, etc).
Why does this client use "i"? -- They use it because with "i" they can
run a
24/7 shop with zero IT staff. That right, there are no IT staff. This
company pays a retainer for support on an as required basis and have
worked
this way since 1994. Never has the system failed in all this time.
Financially, this means that this client saves approx £200,000 per
annum in
employment costs. That's £200,000 extra profit every year. The system i
pays
for itself in months, and Windoze servers are not welcome on this site.
If
any new software requires Windoze, they don't buy, instead they look
for
alternatives.
Regarding marketing - well IBM have been informed many times, and the
client
has agreed to act as a reference site. But, so far, IBM have not
expressed
great interest. Shame!
Syd Nicholson
-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Dave Odom
Sent: 18 August 2008 20:54
To: 'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Getting started with Net.data -was
-I'dbetterdomorethan talk
Maurice,
Exactly what I've been saying for years now. CEOs/CIOs(if they are
not
still a nerd)/CFOs don't give a rats (*^ about the platform, they care
about
their business with regard to:
- Increase Revenue
- Increase Productivity
- Decrease Risk
- Decrease Cycle time
BUT, with that said, these type folks are aware of Windoz everyday.
They
also don't want to hear that someone wants to buy/keep a "tool" that
deals
in a language called Rocket Propelled Grenade (what they think of when
they
hear RPG) for which there are few trained to support in the market
place
and almost no schools teaching. Couple this with what appears to them
to
be a higher cost item, and the value message just doesn't seem to be
there.
So, unless you can really make a good value elevator speech, the i idea
is
dead or dying. Do I like that?? No, but, it is the direction of the
world... unless everyone in the i industry that possibly can, can show
a
good value message and market it like mad NOW.
Dave
"Maurice O'Prey" <maurice.oprey@xxxxxxxxx> 8/18/2008 11:52 >>>
Aaron Bartell Wrote:
That dynamic is the fact that programmers are more and more deciding
which
platform the >>business will be running on based on development tools.
Aaron
To me it seems like the CEO/MDs are deciding (not the developers).
This
means (in some cases) goodbye to the iSeries (their opinion not mine).
Having conflict about the technology that should be run does not really
help
the case much either (IMHO), it simply makes them (the businesses)
technology agnostic (and go for the business solution). After that it
is not
in the hands of the developers as today's IT world is fast moving (and
it is
moving).
Maurice O'Prey
----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Aaron Bartell
Sent: 18 August 2008 13:41
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Getting started with Net.data - was
-I'dbetterdomorethan talk
Remember, it is the solutions that sell hardware, not necessarily the
tools.
What is selling .NET then? How is RoR getting into the market? I
disagree
with you near completely on this point. I would agree that *some*
decisions
are made just because xyz software only runs on Windows, but for the
most
part there is a very interesting dynamic happening in the past 5
years.
That dynamic is the fact that programmers are more and more deciding
which
platform the business will be running on based on development tools.
The
proof in the pudding for me is .NET (the leader) and other technologies
like
RoR, etc. Developers are choosing these tools because there is an
initial
phase where you are incredibly productive and all other thoughts of
long-term-viability are thrown out the window.
My prediction: In about 10 years we will have such an incredible mess
of
technologies/languages/databases that there will be dire need for an
XML
like savior to come in and make everyone talk on the same level. There
will
most likely be languages translators that aim to bring everything to a
common language so IT depts can focus on one syntax to gain a
competitive
advantage and ease of development/deployment. In the end it comes down
to
sticking with your existing investment and building on that. The only
reason to move is if most all avenues have been tried and in my
experience
that is hardly ever the case.
Aaron Bartell
http://mowyourlawn.com (
http://mowyourlawn.com/ ) (
http://mowyourlawn.com/ )
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 7:06 AM, Mike Pavlak <Mike.Pavlak@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:
There may be such a story, but I have not seen it yet. Right now, we
see
folks who are in the IBMi camp coming to PHP. About the closest we
would come would be a customer that purchased HarrisData because
they
wanted to stay on the i5 and they liked the fact that the front end
is
getting moved from Net.Data to PHP. For HarrisData, it is beginning
with their customer zone and will move on from there:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20080812/bs_prweb/prweb1201344_3;_ylt=AoC6
XhbU68Dn1.N8PZDvlqS8r70F;_ylu=X3oDMTA4Nm4ycjRuBHNlYwNuZXdz
We are revamping the Zend website with new case studies that should
be
up soon. Will keep an eye out. Remember, it is the solutions that
sell
hardware, not necessarily the tools. All those AS/400's in the 80's
&
90's went out the door with SSA BPCS and JD Edwards World, etc. on
them.
As we see more ERP opportunities in the IBMi space written in PHP or
with PHP front ends that is when I expect to start selling hardware.
For now, we are simply one damn good reason not to jump off!
Momentum
is certainly building...
Regards,
Mike
Also, check out the i5 content at ZendCon 2008 - Our annual PHP
ConferenceSeptember 15-18:
www.zendcon.com
-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Aaron Bartell
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 6:47 AM
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Getting started with Net.data - was
-I'dbetterdomorethan talk
Does Zend have any public PHP "success stories" of PHP on the IBMi?
I
know
lots on this forum have had success, but they were already on the
IBMi.
I
am looking for a story where somebody actually made the move and
provided
reasons for WHY they chose the more expensive IBMi over other
servers.
It would be great to see IBMSystemsMag.com do such a story!
Aaron Bartell
http://mowyourlawn.com ( http://mowyourlawn.com/ ) (
http://mowyourlawn.com/ )
On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Mike Pavlak <Mike.Pavlak@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:
In my experience, All the PHP developers I have met that have been
asked
to work on and IBMi have little trouble moving to the IBMi. Many
actually enjoy it :-) There is a sect in the PHP community longing
to
support PHP in an enterprise environment.
I think the IBMi is easier to learn and understand than the dark
art
of
Linux. IMHO...
And yes, the i5-toolkit in Zend Core is pretty easy to use, but
not
necessary for straight SQL calls to the DB.
Regards,
Mike
Also, check out the i5 content at ZendCon 2008 - Our annual PHP
ConferenceSeptember 15-18:
www.zendcon.com
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