Re: Which scales better? J2EE, PHP, or CGIDEV2?

[Paul Tuohy <tuohyp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Dang! I had assumed I would have typed "losing". Mea culpa.

And the thread has gone off tangent at times? Really? Sorry, no idea 
what the emoticon for sarcasm is :-)

Regards

Paul Tuohy
ComCon
www.comconadvisor.com 
www.systemideveloper.com 





Kevin Turner wrote:
> Hi Paul
>
> "losing" is correct, but you said "loosing", which probably has something to do with making something less tight :-)
>
> Yes, since I asked the question others probably have elaborated the point - but it seems to have drifted off at tangents at various times I think.
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> Rgds
> Kevin
>
> On 8 Oct 2010, at 02:12, "Paul Tuohy" <tuohyp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>   
> > Hi Kevin,
> >
> > Not ignoring you - just traveling all day :-) I think others have
> > already answered this.
> >
> > At some point, an application may need multiple servers. This might be
> > because of performance (less likely on i, more likely on other
> > platforms), application design, the type of information being processed
> > - whichever. When it comes to that, Java has more to offer. This doesn't
> > mean it can't be done with RPG or PHP - just that it is easier with
> > Java. In the same was as handling stateful information is "easier" in
> > PHP with $_SESSION[] and database handling is easier in RPG. Just the
> > right tool for the job.
> >
> > I guess the real point is what you define as high, medium and below medium.
> >
> > Again, I hope no one thinks I am slamming RPG (and PHP) as solutions -
> > the opposite would be the truth.
> >
> > And my spell checker (and dictionary) do not have a problem with
> > "losing" - or is that a US spelling? Or does do my speling and gramer be
> > that not good?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Paul Tuohy
> > ComCon
> > www.comconadvisor.com
> > www.systemideveloper.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Kevin Turner wrote:
> >     
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > I am still a bit confused about the original assertion in the article that
> > > "you would use Java for high usage, PHP for medium, and CGIDEV2 for below medium."
> > >
> > > You go on to say that hardware is the main factor (and I guess it probably is).  This being so, why would CGIDEV2 (or rather RPG running in conjunction with Apache) be necessarily less scalable than PHP or Java?  You could write the same application in the three different languages all working with Apache on the i, and I know which one would perform best.  The scalability is provided by the way Apache delegates the requests and how fast the application returns the response.
> > >
> > > So, was this assertion based on the normal application server technology you would put in place to handle each of those languages rather than the languages themselves?
> > >
> > > We have an application based on CGIDEV2 and Renaissance that handles over a 1000 concurrent user sessions in a call centre throughout the day, but its ability to do so is heavily reliant on power of the i on which it runs. I guess we will never be able to compare this with an equivalent Java or PHP application, but my gut feel is that it would not improve matters (probably the opposite). So I know it can be done with good old RPG and Apache. I don't know if it can be done with Java or PHP.
> > >
> > > I would be interested to hear if anyone has actually successfully managed to create a large scalable application based on Java/WebSphere and the i? The few large projects that I know of have always been abandoned after having wasted vast sums of money and a lot of time.
> > >
> > > By the way, as a regularly published writer I would expect you to use the correct spelling for "losing" ;-)  (sorry - that one always gets to me!)
> > >
> > >
> > > Rgds
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Paul Tuohy
> > > Sent: 06 October 2010 22:48
> > > To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
> > > Subject: Re: [WEB400] Which scales better? J2EE, PHP, or CGIDEV2?
> > >
> > > Henrik,
> > >
> > > Perhaps we are loosing something in the translation (or I am
> > > mis-understanding your point).
> > >
> > > I was trying to make the point that hardware is what has the major
> > > impact on scalability/performance. Software that is running blindingly
> > > fast on today's systems would have been considerably slower on older
> > > systems.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Paul Tuohy
> > > ComCon
> > > www.comconadvisor.com
> > > www.systemideveloper.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Henrik Rützou wrote:
> > >
> > >       
> > > > Paul,
> > > >
> > > > when you first run a stateless environment hot it performs very well ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Just try "the medicine" if the smallest 515 you can by for money - a 1MB
> > > > memory machine with one disk
> > > >
> > > > http://85.24.84.163:1550/pextcgi/pxsession.pgm
> > > >
> > > > /henrik
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Paul Tuohy <tuohyp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >         
> > > > > Hi Nathan,
> > > > >
> > > > > I think language efficiency comes well down the list after the hardware
> > > > > - and I apologize if that was not clear from the article.
> > > > >
> > > > > It does have an affect but nowhere near the affect it used to have.
> > > > > Henrik quoted the solution serving 400 web (companies) users - 10 jobs -
> > > > > running on a 520 (I am assuming RPG). I also get through a fairly heavy
> > > > > workload on my little 620. But I wonder what kind of response we would
> > > > > be getting running the same software on an old B20 (if it were possible)?
> > > > >
> > > > > Performance is of course a consideration. And language can have a large
> > > > > part to play in that. But I think the application would really dictate
> > > > > how performance may be affected by the language - e.g. Java gives you
> > > > > multi threading, RPG gives you better database access, PHP gives you
> > > > > better session handling etc. etc. - as to which of these is most
> > > > > important depends on the application.
> > > > >
> > > > > Language is about the right tool for the job. And the most important
> > > > > point about that is you have to know the language. No point saying Java
> > > > > is the right language if you can't program in Java.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul Tuohy
> > > > > ComCon
> > > > > www.comconadvisor.com
> > > > > www.systemideveloper.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Nathan Andelin wrote:
> > > > >           
> > > > > > > From: Kevin Schroeder
> > > > > > >               
> > > > >           
> > > > > > > Not correct, IMHO.  "Scalability" has virtually nothing to do with the
> > > > > > > language.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >               
> > > > > > If that's the case, then why did Facebook transform their PHP scripts to
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >             
> > > > > C, and
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >           
> > > > > > compile it?  It seems to me that runtime efficiency (performance) is the
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >             
> > > > > first
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >           
> > > > > > key to scalability.  If your applications require less CPU, then CPU is
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >             
> > > > > less
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >           
> > > > > > likely to be a bottleneck.  The box will handle more work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But is there more to scalability, than language efficiency?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Nathan
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >             
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