Re: Hosting a Large Number of Node Apps on the IBM i -- WEB400

Aaron,

and how many dash boards does a ERP solutions with 1.000 tables
that has to be maintain by a few users have?

IBM I is a business solution server that traditional has a lot of batch
processing that updates data in bulk - a dashboard is wortless in that
context

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 6:11 PM, Aaron Bartell <aaronbartell@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Henrik,

As I stated in my original response to you: "I can understand the need for
generated REST services (great for Javascript front-ends)..."

the only difference is that websockets is bidirectional but who needs that

in general in an business application?

Because of how WebSockets lessen processing/bandwidth it beckons us to
think of new ways to use that power. For example, imagine a scenario where
you have 100 people connected to a dashboard getting realtime stats and
instead of running a DB2 query for each user you instead run a single query
and emit the data to all listening sockets. That is the concept I
introduced in a yet-to-be-published article. I introduce the concept in
the IBM i Dash Node.js open source project. See this commit for applicable
code changes: http://bit.ly/ibmidash-wrkactjob-commit

Then also look at how things like GoogleDocs, Trello, etc work. The user
doesn't wait to see updates, they show in real-time. This is the users
expectation of all their apps. We are armed with the right tools. We need
to stop producing 2005 era web apps.

At the end of the day there are an INCREDIBLE amount of websocket use cases
for business apps - we just need to dream in color. For example, here's
another article where I used IBM i + Node.js + Watson to do real-time
conversion of speech to text: http://bit.ly/ibmi-nodejs-watson

Aaron Bartell
litmis.com - Services for open source on IBM i

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Henrik Rützou <hr@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Aaron

even if you move from HTTP into websockets you will need the exact same
mechanisms to connect your DB to the client, the only difference is that
websockets is bidirectional but who needs that in general in an business
application?

And don't say that a browser client that rely's on websockets isn't a
javascript based client - HTML don't support websockets ;-)

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Henrik Rützou <hr@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

To me a CRUD webservice is just a generic program that connects a
DB2 table to the HTTP client.

It has a main function parameter FUNC

inzRow - returns a single row with fields either blanks/0 or intialized
with defaults
getRow - return a single specific rows fields.
insRow - insert at row in the DB table
updRow - update an existing row in the DB table
dltRow - delete an existing row in the table
getRows - returns a complete or a subset (*) of rows in the DB table

It has an output parameter (OUTPUT)

JSON - returns data in JSON format
XML - returns data in XML format
CSV - returns data in CSV format
XLS - returns data in XLS format
PDF - returns data in PDF format

getRows has additional parameters:

SORT - defines the main sorting field
DIR - defines the direction ASC/DSC
START - defines the starting point in the view
LIMIT - defines numer of rows to be send
SEARCH - defines a general search in the DB table

The web service is completely stand alone and hasen't got any binding

to

the different UI's it serves that just call's the webservice if an when

it

need it.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 5:14 PM, Henrik Rützou <hr@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

I think we are discussing the CRUD term in different meanings.

What is a REST/CRUD webservice for you?

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Kelly Cookson <KCookson@xxxxxxxxxxxx

wrote:

Aaron,

Thanks. That makes sense. And I agree that our users are increasingly
wanting (or needing) non-CRUD apps to stay efficient and effective.

Thanks,

Kelly Cookson
IT Project Leader
Dot Foods, Inc.
1.217.773.4486 ext. 12676
kcookson@xxxxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: WEB400 [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Aaron
Bartell
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:07 AM
To: Web Enabling the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Hosting a Large Number of Node Apps on the IBM

i

But what exactly do you mean when you contrast a vanilla CRUD app

with

a

better user experience?

The below article is a CRUD app I wrote in Node.js. CRUD apps are
mostly for traversing the database relationships. For example,

display

customers, select specific customer, select customer orders, display
specific order.

http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/ibmi/developer/general/creating-crud/

In contrast, a non-CRUD app would bring you to a dashboard showing

the

latest orders, the orders with issues, customers with outstanding

money

issues, etc. In short, non-CRUD apps incorporate many DB2 tables and
business logic into a single screen to keep the user efficient. CRUD

apps

are more for allowing you to maintain data on a table by table,

screen

by

screen, basis.

That's my view of CRUD. I am sure there are many other flavors of

views.

Aaron Bartell
litmis.com - Services for open source on IBM i

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 8:59 AM, Kelly Cookson <

KCookson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

Aaron,

When I think of CRUD, I simply thing of operations against a

database

table. A RESTful service can perform create, read, update and

delete

operations against a table with no user interface defined.

When I hear the phrase CRUD app, I think of a green screen that

allows

you to take some options against records in a display file. I know

I

don't want to develop web pages and mobile apps that resemble green
screens. I could just use a screen scraper to do that--and then

have

users wonder why we switched from green screens, and why my web

pages

don't work like the web pages they view on the Internet. I get

this.

But what exactly do you mean when you contrast a vanilla CRUD app

with

a better user experience?

Thanks,

Kelly Cookson
IT Project Leader
Dot Foods, Inc.
1.217.773.4486 ext. 12676
kcookson@xxxxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: WEB400 [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of

Aaron

Bartell
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 7:55 AM
To: Web Enabling the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Hosting a Large Number of Node Apps on the

IBM

i

I can understand the need for generated REST services (great for
Javascript
front-ends) but was surprised to hear you espouse CRUD. In my
experience the vanilla CRUD apps (even for internal use) are losing
ground (as they
should) because a better experience is being demanded by both
customers and employees. I think this is where WebSockets are

really

going to shine.

Are others still seeing CRUD apps as acceptable (from the
customer/employee perspective)?

Aaron Bartell
litmis.com - Services for open source on IBM i

On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Henrik Rützou <hr@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

Kelly

you never know what you run into, my web-systems runs side by

side

with a varity of products.

btw, I am able to publish 600 tables with the same amount of

generic

REST/CRUD services in less than 5 minutes by using my SDK - how

long

do you think it will take to hand build the same in node.js?

On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 8:42 PM, Nathan Andelin <

nandelin@xxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

and developing custom web and mobile apps for our employees

to

perform their business processes.

Soon after you make the move to Web interfaces, you won't be
constrained

to

only supporting "employees". Most shops branch out to

supporting

customers,

trading partners, and providing greater variety of Web services
across

more

application areas.
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Regards,
Henrik Rützou

http://powerEXT.com <http://powerext.com/>
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http://powerEXT.com <http://powerext.com/>

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Henrik Rützou

http://powerEXT.com <http://powerext.com/>

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Henrik Rützou

http://powerEXT.com <http://powerext.com/>
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