RE: Did IBM Hijack Apache????

["jt" <jt@xxxxxx>]

Comments inline:

| -----Original Message-----
| [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Steve Richter
| Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 6:04 PM

| -----Original Message-----
| From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
| [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Shannon O'Donnell
| Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 3:07 PM


| >iSeries Specific strategy:
|
| >- Port to the iSEries ILE environment
| >- Provied equivalent function to the existing HTTP Server for iSeries
| >(original HTTP SErver)
| >- Add iSeries integration (user profile, SSL, validation list, LDAP,
| etc...)

So SSL and LDAP are already in Apache, and functionality is just being
duplicated?  Plus security is being beefed up.  (Btw, whoever(s) made up
this plan sure hit the nail...!!)

| >- Eventually replace HTTP Server for iSEries
| >- Source code initially comes from ASF
| >- Then we add the iSeries customization
| >- Then we subject it to iSEries development and test processes

| Products like apache and the
| rpg compiler
| should all be open source.

I'd sure agree with this much.


| IBM loses no revenue ( open source, not free
| source )

Well, "Open Source" as it's commonly defined equates, pretty much, to "free"
source.  But, in a way, IBM, JDE, Lawson (just a few amongst ERP vendors
I've worked on) have been using the same fundamentals of "Open Source" (and
getting PLENTY of eyes on the source they provided over the past 2 or 3
decades...!)


| and since the customer would gain by being able to customize the
| products, IBM would actually grow revenue as the satisfied customer brings
| more business to IBM.

Hmm.  The payroll costs of having systems programmers tinker with the OS is
pretty steep on companies, Steve.  This has been the bane of both *nix and
mainframes...  Now this tends to semi-work in academia, where there are both
teachers and students who are willing to work on the OS for "free".
('Course, the costs of higher education seem to try to keep up with the
inflation in health-care costs...!  And there IS a cost to teachers not
teaching, and students not broadening their horizon.)


And as far as customers bringing more business to IBM.. well I dunno the
numbers, but I haven't seen a whole LOTta that going on.

I tend to believe that making source available would make it much easier for
IBM to charge for CPF/OS/400 source/support combo as a separate item.  As
hardware costs (hardware and TIMI) go down, that's what IBM is doing.  Now
how much IBM should charge for the OS and DB2 and all that, (including cost
of whatever-LIPIs-provided).. well, isn't that gonna be a tricky question??

Also, as far as:

| -----Original Message-----
| [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Steve Richter
| Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 11:59 AM
| Subject: iSeries apache is not open source?? was : Did IBM Hijack
| Apache????
|
|
| So the assumption is that IBM has taken the apache open source code, added
| iSeries specific code to it, and is shipping iSeries Apache without
| releasing the source code back to the public domain.
|
| Isnt that unethical?

Well, I haven't heard the definitive answer on whether the Apache source
can-be/has-been successfully compiled on iSeries and modified.  Not so much
a question of ethics, to me.  (For example from somewhat unrelated topics, I
don't view OSI=FSF=~EFF, or the actions of Dr. Lessig as unethical, but as
un-economical.)