RE: Another Midrange Forum Falls Over and Can't Get Up -- MIDRANGE-L

Joe:

hey, remember, I'm the Java, WDSC and EGL guy

And keep up the good work!

You're right, Joe. It's true that many programmers these days are sloppy, slam together some prefab code and voila.

I read an article this week about the trend that Java is learnt as a first language to students. Nothing wrong with Java, but to really know what's hapenning, how things work, you first have to learn a bare metal language like C (not assembler). It's simply much more fun to make use of the vast array of standard components the java platform provides and slam together some graphical library components and have fast results. Instead of first studying, thinking, learning a couple of months before building.

I encounter too many programmers (fellow RPG'ers) who ask questions which shows that they are really ignorant and just don't know things work. They learn a bag of trick and survive... nothing more but survive. Yes RPG'ers.... it's not something that has to do with modern times, Java, open source etc etc. But these days it shows. If all source is closed then it doesn't show. But these days i think we live in a very vibrant IT community with lots of ideas, far too many ideas and technologies to be productive (another web framework anyone?). But i think this is a good thing, times are a changing. And the end result will certainly be much better than what we had in the 80's / 90's. I just hope that the as/400 platform (i still call it that way i'm sorry) will survive all this. But as always, good ideas (as opposed to products) will always surface, but it can take a while.

Also, IMHO, a lot has to do with the fact that it's very easy today to do "programming". A whole new generation of developers arised which started out with simple HTML. Anyone can learn HTML in one day and slam to together some pages (for any normal user this is just another application). The next day we learn some CSS to implement some nice features and the next two days we spend time to add some Javascript. It's an easy road... much easier than the steep learning curve that Java has. But hey.... Java is a "real" programming language/environment. I'm convinced the only reason we don't have java apps/applets but instead those clunky web apps is simple because anyone can learn/do it overnight. As opposed to learning a decent, capable, language/environment. So 90% of the people choose the simple approach with direct results (a la VB). Instead of studying one or two months before getting a simple app up and running. And thats why HTML/CSS/Javascript is supposed to be the standard way of building RIA's, instead of Java as it "supposed" to be. Simply because it's the "easy" way for most. But i'm quite sure that in the end, things will be good, but not for all of us. We're just all learning, making mistakes, and learning.

From: joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: RE: Another Midrange Forum Falls Over and Can't Get Up> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 01:44:33 -0600> > > From: john e> > > > Hey Joe,> > Are u serious??? And don't know, but comparing SSA from the 80's with Open> > Source software from these days like Joomla.... i don't know. You sound a> > bit bitter....> > John, I'm dead serious, and not a bit bitter. There's a lot of really cool> code out there (hey, remember, I'm the Java, WDSC and EGL guy), and there's> even some very well written stuff, but way too much code today has bugs that> a first-year programmer wouldn't have made back when I started.> > The fact that the biggest class of security breach in the history of> programming, the buffer overrun, is entirely because programmers are too> lazy to check for the end of the buffer - well, that just amazes me. If I> wrote code that bad back in the day, I wouldn't have lasted a month.> > > > But is this Joomla or just a bad implementation??> > I didn't say that MC Press's problems were bad code; I think it's a bit of> both frankly. But the database errors on the System i Network site are> nothing but bad programming. To have a fatal database error in a production> site - that's simply unacceptable.> > But this is opinion, and it's my opinion. And I won't continue the> conversation, because that's the thing I'm trying to avoid. But I'll bet> you there I'm not the only programmer from my era who thinks that a lot of> the new stuff is garbage.> > Joe> > -- > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list> To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l> or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.>

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