Re: PTF install questions -- MIDRANGE-L

That compiler was definitely NOT "working as designed" since the number of
files included did not exceed documented limits. When I received PTF tape
(9 track) it was inside a sealed plastic bag with a warning about malicious
software. Maybe reluctance to be current is based on some ill-informed
person who opened mail seeing that and passing it up the chain. My own
experience at a non-IBM shop was office administrator demanding the
password for user "ruth" so she could install a word processing package on
a Xenix system.

PTFs received in the mail >MUST< be evil. Therefore ALL PTFs are also evil.

I don't miss that place.

John McKee

On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 6:14 AM, <rob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

How about this ptf? The day I first fired up an AS/400 I could not
compile an RPG program with more than one file in it. My initial thought
was that IBM took this modular programming concept a bit too extreme (I
was migrating from a S/36). Turns out there was a PTF to fix that. I
could just imagine them 'working around that'.
Alas, a lot of shops have this mentality "if it isn't broke, don't fix
it". And keep redefining 'broke' to allow them to not upgrade OS or put
PTF's on.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com

From: John McKee <jmmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Date: 08/29/2013 04:33 PM
Subject: Re: PTF install questions
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx

Which may explain former sa's attitude and a company policy where I
interviewed in 1994. That policy did not allow any PTFs to be installed,
with the one exception of when the OS upgrade was looking for PTFs. Glad
I
wasn't offered that job. I can't imagine how much frustration there might
have been working around issues that IBM actually fixed.

John McKee

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 3:19 PM, <rob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

PTF application often gets blamed for all sorts of stuff.
Guy loads PTF's on AS/400 for next IPL. Powers it off, unplugs it and
replaces power supply, etc. Monday morning, machine is not working. He
finally remembers to put plug in. Gets called on the carpet. Blames it
on new ptf's. Mgt says never to do that again.
Ok, that was taken to the extreme, but shows how quickly some people get
ptf shy.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com

From: Roberto José Etcheverry Romero <yggdrasil.raiker@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Date: 08/29/2013 04:02 PM
Subject: Re: PTF install questions
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx

It would be extremely weird if a FIRMWARE update broke an application up
on
the OS layer, IBM i has lot's of abstraction between apps and the

hardware

so i doubt that. it might be the reason for not installing PTFs

though...

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 4:56 PM, John McKee <jmmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

According to the help, *SYS, which is the default, will also work.
Apparently the missing piece is the front panel setting of "T". Bit

of

paranoia slipping in: years ago, sa held back CA updates. Something

about

the updates messed up an application. Nothing was written down. I

hope

he

didn't set it to "P" for a reason only he knows.

John McKee. .

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Roberto José Etcheverry Romero <
yggdrasil.raiker@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Yes, once the front panel is set to T the *FULL pwrdwnsys will

switch

the

running firmware and it should stop complaining. Keep us posted when

they

allow you to IPL again.
Best Regards,

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 1:03 PM, <rob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Well, based on earlier replies from others I would guess, once you

have

it

set to T, that *FULL should be enough. Again, I use HMC mostly,

with

firmware upgrades controlled by it that I don't do it this way.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com

From: John McKee <jmmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion

<midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx

,

Date: 08/29/2013 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: PTF install questions
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx

This sounding like a stupid question, even to me: But:

Change from P to T, PWRDWNSYS RESTART*YES *FULL)

Or, is Change P to T, PWRDWNSYS RESTART(*NO) and white button the

only

way?

Maybe, just maybe, I can get this fixed Sunday night. Or just put

things

in motion for a hopeful fix in a random number of weeks.

John McKee

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 9:29 AM, <rob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

That could be your problem. Running a power system on P is like

running

an AS/400 on the A side. Just like you'll play heck applying

PTF's

to

IBM

i when running on the A side you'll have a hard time applying

firmware

fixes when running on the P side.
Been a long time since I cracked open the display on my power 6

to

look

at

it. Just so used to using the HMC. Yep, mine is on T.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com

From: John McKee <jmmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <

midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx

,

Date: 08/29/2013 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: PTF install questions
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx

Front panel is P.

Same as DSPPTF

John McKee

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Roberto José Etcheverry Romero

<

yggdrasil.raiker@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The front panel says T but the system still says P? that's

weird. A

Deep

IPL is the only thing left to try, thats, pwrdwnsys restart

*NO,

wait

until

power led blinks and front panel says 01 B N and pull the

plug.

wait

a

minute and reconnect. If that doesnt change it to T then there

is

some

black magic at work.

Keep us posted

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 11:09 AM, John McKee <

jmmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

wrote:

Still shows P side.

My only concern with this mismatch, at this point, is

whether

this

triggers

a "gotcha" at some point, deep in the upgrade process. I do

not

want

to

go

through that again.

People have been complaining about the announced downtimes.

They

were

informed by email. Who reads email??? This either has to

be

forgotten

totally, or at least for several more weeks.

John McKee

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Roberto José Etcheverry

Romero <

yggdrasil.raiker@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Can you try this again?
DSPPTF SELECT(*ACTRQD)
shows eight MH PTFs - 1076, 1073, 1070, 1053, 1007, 1004,

1001,

0997.

All

permantly applied. All show "Permanently applied - IPL".

IPL

source

is

##MACH#B ##SERV#P.
I want to see if it did change to T side.
After all, when the OS controls the fw updates it updates

it

during

a

*full

*yes restart so it should work. And to ammend something i

said

before.

A

PWRDWNSYS *FULL restart *YES does a FSP reset only when a

ptf

applies a

new

fw or when you change the fw side (from T to P or

viceversa).

AH! i just remembered where i saw that "Permanently

Applied

-

IPL".

I

had

to replace a FSP on a machine. My FSP had greater levels

than

the

PTFs

on

the OS so it always was marked like that. Never knew if

they

finally

got

up

to date on PTFs but a lastest-cumulative-install should

have

cleared

that.

I dont think IBM goes around replacing Service Processors

all

day

so

i

doubt it's your case...

Best Regards,

Roberto

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 10:23 AM, John McKee

<jmmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

Tried it this morning. It did NOT. No errors. Only

additional

entry

in

history log from GO LICPGM was "Server IPL required".

John McKee

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 6:51 AM, <rob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Well, that "on a non partitioned, non hmc-managed

system

a

restart

with

*FULL restart *YES will trigger a full server restart

including

the

FSP"

is good news.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com

From: Roberto José Etcheverry Romero

<yggdrasil.raiker@xxxxxxxxx

To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <

midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx

,

Date: 08/28/2013 05:44 PM
Subject: Re: PTF install questions
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx

Yes, on a non partitioned, non hmc-managed system a

restart

with

*FULL

restart *YES will trigger a full server restart

including

the

FSP.

I've seen clients running from A side since the

machine

was

installed

(one

even had QBASE as the controlling subsystem....)

Best Regards,

Roberto

On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 6:30 PM, John McKee <

jmmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

This is a 520. No LPARs. No HMC.

Will restart *YES *FULL fix it? I think I read (was

away

from

desk)

that

this won't work with LPARs. But will it work with

p05?

John McKee

On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Roberto José

Etcheverry

Romero <

yggdrasil.raiker@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I think this is one of those p5 machines with

TwinAx/Lan

consoles

(i

support lot's of them). In that no-partition case,

it

works

as

intended,

a

*full restart does exactly what it says it does.

Of

course

if

we're

talking

about partitions there should be NO way to update

the

FW

from

the

LPAR

(as

you've say lot's of times, FW MUST be HMC

controlled

for

it

not

to

go

way

too new for the hmc code) and a full restart can

only

be

achieved

from

the

HMC (either the system stays on "standby" or

shutdowns

when

the

last

partition is off, either way you must start it

manually).

I can count at least 4 systems off the top of my

head

that

are

non-partitioned, non-hmc-managed and were

installed

just

a

few

months

back.

Fresh from the factory 720 express, lan console.

Seems

like

hmc

is

too

expensive for some, on those systems it still

works...

Best Regards,

On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 5:11 PM, <rob@xxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

A full 'server' ipl cannot be done with

RESTART(*YES).

You

must

use

RESTART(*NO). Otherwise you're just IPLing that

lpar

and

not

the

whole

box. (Yes, this isn't your father's AS/400.)

So,

to

do

a

full

server

IPL

remotely (without an HMC) would probably require

either

operations

console

or lan console. This will give you a gui

picture

of

the

control

panel.

So

after the system has powered all the way off you

could

press

the

white

button via the control panel picture on

lan/operations

console.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com

From: John McKee <jmmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion

<midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx

,

Date: 08/28/2013 03:34 PM
Subject: Re: PTF install questions
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx

I wondered about that this morning. Debated on

whether

to

do

it

or

not.

From previous messages exchanged with Rob, I

was

not

sure

if

that

would

have made a difference.

I started the IPL from my apartment (long boring

story).

Got

to

desk

and

terminal session was down. My DEVD had ONLINE

(*NO).

I

have

since

changed
it to *YES. In theory, now, I could then

perform

a

full

IPL

remotely

and

fix this minor irritant. Am I right?

John

On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Roberto José

Etcheverry

Romero <

yggdrasil.raiker@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Ah! i know what your problem is...
Front panel, does it perchance read: 01 B N

V=F

P?

it

should

read

01

B

N

V=F T. In the same way you have A side and B

side

for

LIC

you

have

P

and

T

(permanent and temporal) sides for the FSP's

firmware.

You

are

IPL'ing

from

P which is the same as IPLing from A and

expecting

ptfs

to

be

loaded.

Next time, do a PWRDWNSYS but take care that

it's a

*FULL

and

not

a

*SYS

one. It'll restart the FSP and load the

correct

fw.

Best Regards!

On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 4:15 PM, John McKee

<jmmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

Finally did.

DSPPTF SELECT(*ACTRQD)
shows eight MH PTFs - 1076, 1073, 1070,

1053,

1007,

1004,

1001,

0997.

All

permantly applied. All show "Permanently

applied -

IPL".

IPL

source

is

##MACH#B ##SERV#P.

Displaying general information for 5722999

MH01076

shows

Server

IPL

required ##SERV#T

Sticking my neck way out - does this imply

that a

second

IPL

from

"B"

side

will fix?

We had PTFs temp applied on "B" for years.

We

are

IPLed,

now,

on

"B".

Did

IPL this morning only end up syncing B and A

sides,

and

another

IPL

will

fix it?

DSPPTF LICPGM(5722SS1) shows most recent (?)

cum

as

TC10292.

I have applied PTFs suggested in (I have

three

documents

don't

remember

which one) manuals for v5r4 to v61 maybe v71

(mind

is

going).

Will

look

through the docs a lot more to be sure

nothing

was

missed.

Since

things

are working, predictably, is there any point

in

loading a

more

recent

CUME? I know you guys with LOADS more

experience

say

link

loader

is

no

longer an issue. But, is there any point to

loading

a

CUME

to

get

to

next

level if upgrade PTFs are permanently

applied?

John McKee
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