RE: [WEB400] Opinions Wanted

[Colin Williams <colin.williams@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Reeve,

Install WDSC and you have all the tools you need for JSPs right there.

cheers
Colin.W

http://as400blog.blogspot.com
 
Extension   5800
Direct dial   0870 429 5800


-----Original Message-----
From: Reeve [mailto:rfritchman@xxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: 01 February 2005 07:27
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Opinions Wanted


<Chuckle>Joe, you sound like the Video Professor!  Will you refund the
shipping and handling?</chuckle>

Your statement explaining the benefits of WebSphere have nothing to do with
WebSphere; I can accomplish the same thing with CGIDEV2.  We'll agree
browser-based applications have merit and we don't need to get into
quantification.  So, the only question is how we get the application to a
browser.

I'd think tools and utilities for managing JSP's should be high on Toronto's
list.

-reeve 


On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 20:03:56 -0600, Joe Pluta <joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> > From: Reeve
> >
> > WebSphere may be IBM's Grand Design but the learning curve is steep,
> 
> You haven't had the right teacher.  I teach RPG programmers how to 
> build web apps in an hour and a half.  I teach architectures in a 
> week.  The amount of Java required to write a web application is 
> roughly equivalent to the amount of CL required to build an ERP 
> application.
> 
> 
> > it requires lots of power,
> 
> That depends.  Java runs better on a 270 than a 170, and better on an 
> i5 than an iSeries.  The JVM needs dedicated memory; 512MB is pretty 
> much the minimum.  So an underpowered iSeries isn't going to like 
> running WebSphere.
> 
> If you're absolutely up against the wall on hardware, you can put a 
> Linux box on the side of your machine for about $1000.  Of course, 
> that means you need to know how to run Linux and if you're complaining 
> about learning a couple hundred lines of Java then you'd probably have 
> a seizure learning Linux.
> 
> 
> > and I have yet to see a clear, concise
> > statement of WebSphere's current benefits
> 
> WebSphere provides browser-based access to business logic written in 
> RPG.  There's your current benefits.  Browser-based access to allow 
> you to move into the future (not to mention eliminating the 
> interactive tax), while at the same time 95% or more of your code is 
> written in RPG, leveraging your current skill set.  And you can sit at 
> that combination of components until you retire.  BUT, if you're so 
> inclined, you can also move ahead into more and more Java, taking 
> advantage of existing libraries that let you do graphics and PDFs and 
> email and whatever else you might want to do.  But you don't have to.
> 
> 
> > Many of us don't have the
> > resources,  inclination, or background to struggle with the 
> > WebSphere infrastructure.  Any moderately competent RPG programmer 
> > can learn a little HTML (or find some high school kind to do it) and 
> > put together a decent business application in a couple of days.
> 
> Any competent RPG programmer can learn enough Java to write a web 
> application.  Hell, you can buy my WDSC book and have it walk you 
> through an entire application from the ground up.  If you can't do 
> this, it's not the language's fault.
> 
> 
> > I suggest the following: formal support for CGIDEV2, additional 
> > functionality for CGIDEV2, getting VisualAge RPG up to V5R3, 
> > application development tools tailored to support the strengths of 
> > i5/OS, a utility to create workable HTML from DDS (use the Webfacing 
> > engine), and a Red Book with lots of practical (meaning "not written 
> > by lab folks") examples designed to illustrate principles, concepts, 
> > and approaches (two examples of useful topics: how to 
> > redesign/rewite a multi-format inquiry screen program to work in the 
> > Web enviroment and how to redesign/rewrite a program to manage a 
> > persistent connection for an update program, this one bring very 
> > important).
> 
> JavaServer Pages are the DDS for HTML.  If you've ever been at one of 
> my sessions, you'll hear me explain it.  A display file is a bunch of 
> literals on a page with holes in it for the data, while a JavaServer 
> Page is a bunch of HTML on a page with holes in it for the data.  You 
> fill a buffer and write it to a display file, you fill a bean and send 
> it to a JSP.
> 
> IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
> 
> Like I say, buy my WDSC book and you will be walked through an entire 
> application.  Then, if you still don't think you can put together your 
> own architecture, hire me for a few days and I'll personally walk you 
> through the entire thing.
> 
> Joe
> 
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