RE: 520 pricing structure

["Joe Pluta" <joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> From: Brad Stone
> 
> Memory is cheap.  Memory is fast.  If that's the issue,
> then straight CGI (no templates) would be even faster.

And impossible to maintain.  Otherwise, just code it all in MI and be
done with it.  Man, you argue some weird points.


> In
> my speed tests I saw no speed differences between embedding
> HTML in the RPG program and with eRPG SDK.  Not even with
> 10000 hits.

Then your tests aren't testing the HTML generation.

It's common sense that using a substitution-based template language MUST
take more cycles than a pure hardcoded line HTML approach.  You need to
write the test to test the pure cycles of your program.  Make sure
you're at 100% load on your tests, then compare the number of
repetitions with and without template substitution.

This stuff about "10000 hits" means nothing.  EVERYTHING is fast on a
machine that's not maxing out.  The question is what will max the
machine out, and how much does your template language add to the
overhead at that point.


> No overhead from a JVM involved.  No extra sockets/data
> queue/etc traffic involved for data access.

The overhead from a JVM is almost entirely at startup time.  Said
overhead becomes negligible after a servlet is loaded, and actually
becomes less as the UI (the JSP) gets compiled to machine code.
Eventually the servlet will outperform the RPG.

I agree that there is overhead at the JVM/OS boundary.  The overhead
from a data queue is not zero.  But the iSeries is built on data queues
and it does them very, very well.  But the fact that my HTML output
routines are comiled to machine code will make up for that in the long
run, I think.


> So?  Then you're supporting 2 machines and 2 OSes.

The point is that I CAN do it if I want to, you can't.  You can't do it,
Brad.  Not for less than $10,000.


> And for
> $500 you'll get a really nice Dell with a CRT montior and
> an 80gb hd, 256k memory.  Hardley enough machine for any
> real traffic, especially now since you've added more
> traffic at the cable level between the machines.

You might want to check out the world outside of Dell, dude.  For $500 I
can build an absolutely SCREAMING Linux/FreeBSD box with 1GB of memory
and a fast, fast processor that will handle just about anything short of
eBay.  Seriously, what do you consider "real traffic"?

Box: $50
Motherboard w/NIC: $70
80GB Drive: $70
2.8GHz Celeron: $90
1GB DDR400 RAM: $180
Total: $460

$30 gets me 1GB LAN.  For another hundred bucks or so I can get more RAM
or put some L2 cache on the processor.  I might have to spend another
$50 on an old monitor if I don't have a KVM switch.


> The JSTL was created by the Java Community.  Think everyone
> uses them?  Highly doubt it.  But at least we all use the
> same RPG op-codes as standards (no choice).

The syntax for JSP scriptlets and expressions, which is all I really
care about, is exactly the same for every JSP out there.  You really
only need one tag, jsp:useBean (although @import is helpful).  But my
JSP will run on any vanilla JSP processor anywhere.

Just to be clear, I emphatically do NOT endorse the frameworks silliness
of things like Struts and JSF.


> I would be happy to name my procedures the same as CGIDEV2
> or others, but there are subtle differences in my
> procedures and how they function with the product.

Thank you for making my point more clearly than even I could have.


> I also
> wanted to give them "more descriptive names".  You can
> always rename them in the prototype definitions if you
> really want to standardize them...

This is grasping at straws, man, especially if there are parameter
differences.


> > Those are the most glaring architectural deficiencies of
> > the RPG-CGI approach.
> 
> Glaring to some, far fetched to others, meaningless to
> others (those who could give a ratt's *ss or understand
> it's "just HTML" and the delivery mechanism isn't all that
> complicated).

The inability to move your UI into the DMZ is not "far fetched" or
"meaningless".  If you don't need it, then it's not relevant from a
business standpoint, but nevertheless it's an irreparable deficiency in
the architecture.

This is not some touchy-feely "everything is okay" Microsoft seminar.
Some designs are really better than others, and JSP is better than
RPG-CGI.  That doesn't mean that RPG-CGI is wrong for some situations;
sometimes a dumb tube is better than a PC. 

Joe