Re: native PHP in V5R4??? -- WEB400

Isn't it true that when others refer to "modern" languages they are
including vb.net as one of those languages ? I believe that vb.net still
supports all the "native" database IO commands that have been in the
basic lauguage for 30 years. 

>>> albartell@xxxxxxxxx 2/24/2006 8:06:27 AM >>>
With all due respect Dave, I think you are missing the big picture.
You
think that SQL is the ONLY way. Even if a better way exists - which I
believe native access in RPG is better (and maybe that is the point we
can't
agree on).

Just because other languages have no other way other than SQL to
access
databases doesn't mean that is the way everyone should go. If I read
between
the lines correctly you have concern that native access will be taken
away
sometime in the future and RPG programmers will all of a sudden be left
with
the task of converting all their code to SQL access and/or forced to do
all
new development with SQL access. I will make a prediction that if RPG
native
access goes the way of the buffalo, so will the language. IBM has good
reason to NOT leave RPG in the dust as that is where their faithful
customers live. RPG is proprietary to OS/400 which is a pooh-poohed
statement to make in the market place because "it locks you in to the
iSeries", but I can't think of a better box to be locked into. With
being
proprietary you get a lot of benefit that other languages CAN'T give
you
because they try to abstract each layer of an application so much. Sure
they
try to dynamically build it all for you so you don't have to care
(thinking
of hibernate.org) but to have some of that built into the compiler and
OS
provides great benefit and productivity to the end programmer.

On the other side of the fence SQL has been neglected too much by the
RPG
compiler. Though it is getting more attention as of late in V5R4. We
will
have to see how the RPG community treats this next round of SQL
changes
built into the compiler.


Aaron Bartell

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Dave Odom
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 6:20 PM
To: web400@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [WEB400] native PHP in V5R4???

I wondered when you'd chime in.  Let me know when you are ready to
tackle
the big picture of the iSeries perception and ways to have it taken
seriously when competing against is internationally recognized
RDBMS rivals.   

And since I have been around for a long time and have faced the big
picture
and realized what makes a platform have a future, I try to get the
faithful
to recognize the "elephant in the living room".

You're very smart Joe and I keep hoping you'll help me with the big
picture
and not hit me on the nits.

Dave       

>>> joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 2/23/2006 15:51:38 >>>
I shouldn't bother, but I'm in a mood...

> From: Dave Odom
> 
> Not true about SQL being slower access than RPG.

Yes it is true.  I've proven it over and over.  In single record
access, RPG
beats SQL.  In single record update, it beats it by an order of
magnitude.
Set-based access, as Walden points out, is faster, particularly when
the set
size is over 100 records.  At about ten records, the two are pretty
close.
But for transaction processing (as opposed to data mining), nothing
beats
good old indexed access.


> But the bigger
> picture is if the platform is to compete seriously in the market
place
> against other DBMS platforms it is imperative those using legacy 
> programming languages (RPG, CL, etc.) move to using mainstream
languages
> (SQL for sure) and programming methodologies.

SQL is not an application development language.  It is a data access
language.  It has been poked, prodded and manipulated into doing many
of the
things that true application development languages do, but only at the
cost
of lots of strange platform-specific behavior.  Try getting the first
ten
rows of any SELECT in the four or five top databases, and you'll see
what I
mean.

SQL is to databases what C++ is to systems programming.  A really good
language for what it does with a bunch of baggage placed on it that it
was
never intended for.  If you want objects, use a true OO: Java for
strong
typing, something like Python for weak typing.


Anyway, this is hardly going to change minds.  If you've been around a
while, though, you realize that no two business are exactly the same,
and
that there exists a mix of technologies, OO and procedural, GUI and
green
screen, set-based and transaction-oriented, for every business
problem.
And
in the end, those who use the best tools for the job are the ones who
really
understand the bigger picture.


Joe


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