Nathan and Henrik
I have absolutely no issue with the use of JavaScript, indeed I use it a lot and I will use it (judiciously) more and more in future developments. What I do have an issue with is people jumping straight on to square Z without even so much as "is this OK?"
If you want to go down that route then please go ahead, but be aware that if and when you stumble no one is going to pick you up!
- Maurice O'Prey
-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nathan Andelin
Sent: 29 January 2013 19:51
To: Web Enabling the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)
Subject: Re: [WEB400] DB Maintenance Design Patterns
Henrik,
I'm suffering from the same disconnect. How would disabling JavaScript help users with disabilities? How would impairing the browser improve accessibility? It doesn't make sense. If you want to help people with disabilities then provide keyboard short-cuts as alternatives to mouse events, at least when it concerns to database maintenance.
How would reloading an entire page (brochure-ware) be more accessible than using AJAX to update field values. Under the former you wait longer and consume more bandwidth. The latter is n-times more efficient.
I think that arguments can be made for using moderate amounts of JavaScript. Excessive JavaScript can impair the performance of user interfaces; make the UI appear sluggish and heavy-weight. But it doesn't make sense to eschew JavaScript altogether.
Some developers may not want to take the time and initiative to learn JavaScript. In that case, they may license a wizard to generate it; consign themselves to the constraints of the wizard.
-Nathan
----- Original Message -----
From: Henrik Rützou <hr@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Web Enabling the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries) <web400@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [WEB400] DB Maintenance Design Patterns
Maurice,
What is it that gives an employee with a disability, or any employee for that matter, the right to disable javascript on his work computer? And why should they? What is the argument?
And what about HTML5 and CSS3 should there also be EU rules forbidding using these?
I think I can speak for many that the society has to provide accessibility for most possible people and persons with a disability has the right to be helped in the best possible way, but that right doesn’t include the right to refuse to use a common worldwide used and available technology - that is a complete misunderstanding.
Javascript is an older technology than CSS and javascript is a natural component of coding webpages as HTML rendering is and it has been it by decades. Besides that javascript comes with all available browsers and is an important component if you want to provide cross browser/device support and thereby common accessibility.
Besides that javascript is activated as standard in all browsers and IMO, anyone that deliberately adds disability to his/hers browser has only them self to blame.
To demand EU legislation that any webpage should be able to run in any persons f***** up browser setting (hereby disabling processing of program code that is an international ISO/IEC industry standard) as the lowest common denominator and then use people with a disability as the platform for the argumentation is to me farfetched and completely taking out of context.
The world is changing with the speed of light, yesterday we had analog telephones, max 8bytes pr. second telegraphs from the post office, analog data transmission and radio beacons for ship navigation, today we have digital telephones, digital 20Mbit pr. second e-mails from our homes, gigabyte digital data transmission and GPS satellites for the same and no one is dreaming of producing a training or film video on VHS or Betamax because a little stubborn nostalgic group still prefers or only has access to that technology.
What you are arguing and suggestion is that those of us that develops modern WEB 2.0 UI’s should start with going back several decades and develop our base systems based on what technology was available at that time to support users that prefers that technology and then add features to make the system more “modern” – and that is as technologic idiotic as to demand VW to develop a Golf VII based on a Golf I chassis from 1974 and still get 5 stars in the current EuroNCAP standard security crash test.
In a broader sense the term “availability/accessibility” has in the resent years got a new meaning, because who has to be available/accessible to whom? “I want this and that, I want it today, I wanted it yesterday and I want more tomorrow, because then my demand all has changed” doesn’t seems to apply to the current world we live in.
Yesterday is in a technological sense not only bygones, yesterday is for many people real bygones and those who will survive are those who manage to adapt to the current technology and situation.
Nobody will survive making software to an IBM I and still compatible with a
System/36 5363 or a first generation browser – technological bygones has to be bygones, so has webpages without javascript and that is where your disability argument doesn’t hold water.
And still the question is in the air, what is the argument for doing so?
--
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