Re: OT - Shutting down an RS/6000 ? -- MIDRANGE-L

I would agree that F4 prompting is pretty cool, and agree more strongly yet
that the HELP key (or F1 in *almost* all cases as an alternative) is even
more cool.

I am an iSeries/AIX/HPUX/Linux/Winblows guy with a lot of experience in all
of those environments.  I've written a potful of applications on all of
those environments.  This is not to brag (those things and $1.50 will get
me on the subway in NYC)... just to set the stage.

The primary difference is in philosophy.  The iSeries has its own
philosophy; *nix has a vastly differing one.  The ability to succeed on any
of these platforms, is directly related to the ability to live within the
philosophical design of that system.  On iSeries, it's HELP and F4 (and
midrange-L).  On *nix, it's man and google (and unix-wiz list).  They all
serve their functions, and it is in understanding those functions that
proficiency resides.  They're not better or worse... just different.

Each has its limitations; each has its advantages.  Try:
   ls "$(awk '/files:/ {print $3}' | sed 's/a/z/g')*" | more
on your iSeries system.

iSeries won't like it, but that's because it's different.

I like that I can use man on commands whether I have the correct authority
or not.  I do NOT like the AS/400s propensity toward hiding even the help
for commands you're not authorized to.  But, hey, it's just because they're
different.

I like that I can make extensive, intelligent use of hierarchical
filesystems on *nix... and am disappointed that the same facility isn't
available to the bulk of OS/400 facilities.

The iSeries and its predecessor the S/38 have always been known as
"programmer's machines."  It's a really easy design; menuing is a snap,
everything can be made quite simple.  The alternative systems are more
designed for running server types of applications.  No better, no  worse;
just different.

You can do a lot with both.  Most of what you can do with one, you can do
with the other.  It does no good to get mad because someone likes one over
the other; they're just different from one another.

It makes me wonder what someone who has administrative and programming
responsibilities on an LPAR system feels about his job.  Me, I'd love it!
But then, I'm different.

Dennis





"Adam Lang" <aalang@rutgersinsurance.com>@midrange.com on 11/13/2002
02:10:27 PM

Please respond to midrange-l@midrange.com

Sent by:    midrange-l-admin@midrange.com


To:    <midrange-l@midrange.com>
cc:
Subject:    Re: OT - Shutting down an RS/6000 ?


As we all know by now, I am a Linux guy.

I must say the OS/400 being able to do F4 to get parameters, do wrk* or
wrk?
to get a list of possible commands is immensely helpful.

A lot fo what i learned to do on the AS/400 I did by typing wrk* and just
scrollign through till I saw a command that might do what i needed.

For Linux, www.google.com is my usualy reference.

Adam Lang
Systems Engineer
Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company
http://www.rutgersinsurance.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Pluta" <joepluta@PlutaBrothers.com>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:22 AM
Subject: RE: OT - Shutting down an RS/6000 ?


> > From: Hans Boldt
> >
> > And if a Unix admin wanted to find out how to shutdown an iSeries,
> > would it really be any easier for him to discover the PWRDWNSYS
command?
>
> Hans, I hope you're not actually intimating that a Unix system is as
> user-friendly as an AS/400.  If so, your bias is getting a little
lopsided,
> even for you.
>
>
> > Like any operating system, you have to learn the commands and
> > conventions. OS/400 has its quirks too - I still can't always figure
> > out when to use WRKxxx or STRxxx or DSPxxx etc. after 21 years on
> > this system!
>
> Is this the OS, or you?  The fact that you can say WRKxxx shows that
OS/400
> commands are named consistently, something you certainly cannot say about
> Unix commands.
>
>
> > But just as OS/400 operators know to press F4 or F1 for
> > assistance, Unix/Linux/Posix operators know about command option -h
> > or --help, or how to read a manpage.
>
> Which doesn't work on the shutdown command.  And the fact that you can
> prompt an OS/400 command, and a parameter, while entering the command
makes
> it light years ahead of a man page.  Not only that, the F4 assist menu
> groups all related commands, and the GO CMDxxx allows you to look up
> commands by verb or noun.
>
> If I see the command WRKSYSSTS, or EDTF, or CRTDEVD, I have a pretty good
> idea of what it does from the name.  Also, I can usually find the command
I
> need by knowing the appropriate abbreviation, such as CRT for "create" or
> SPLF for "spooled file".  If I want to create something in OS/400, I type
GO
> CMDCRT.  If I want to find out what commands are available for spooled
> files, I type GO CMDSPLF.
>
> On the other hand, in Unix, "cat" is copy, "grep" is string search, "man"
is
> help, "ls" is directory contents.  How does one figure out what commands
> such as "df", "chmod", "sed", "stty" or "ps" do?  By going to the man
pages
> for each individual command.  But how do you even know which command to
look
> at?  Unix really shows its age and its temperament when you have commands
> like "yacc" (Yet Another Compiler Compiler).  The name is cute, but
> arbitrary.  Much Unix expertise is like this - more of a mythology handed
> down over the generations than a self-consistent body of knowledge.
>
> I've worked on both operating systems (and a few others besides), and
while
> I've spent more time on OS/400 than Unix, I think you're one of the only
> people who would ever suggest that Unix commands are even close to OS/400
in
> ease of use.  It's these sorts of statements that really sort of taint
your
> other, often very valid, comments, Hans.
>
> Joe