RE: 520 pricing structure -- WEB400

I agree that your apps probably run faster than any other approach out there
while developing on an iSeries (I saw it first hand). And that is mostly
because you write your own plumbing and don't have any additional things you
don't need.  I just don't like how you setup your tiers (multiple languages)
and I don't care to argue about it because we both have our minds set.  On
this point you could also call me a business programmer that would rather
write logic than plumbing, especially when plumbing (say JSF) has already
been written by minds greater than mine.

>(Literally.  I just installed a system using my thin-veneer JSP approach
and we're getting sub-second response time on 300-record queries.  We
downloaded over 8000 records to the browser in around 10 seconds.)

Just curious, what was the CPU load at the time of that download? Was the
box being hit pretty hard, normal usage, or you had most of the CPU
available to you?

<Joe>
P.S. As to the Struts/JSF fiasco, you are definitely trying to make roadkill
smell like roses.  The problem is that one is not compatible with another.
It's NOTHING like RPG III to ILE RPG.  And when McClanahan dumps JSF next
year (or whenever he gets tired of it), you're going to have yet another set
of obsolete technology.
</Joe>

Check out this link:
http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=29068. Craig
describes how migration can happen from Struts to JSF one app or screen at a
time. They can coexist, though like Craig states, the eventual goal should
be to migrate completely to JSF.

>...and RPG is the best.
RPG is the best for the iSeries, yes I would agree with that if you already
have RPG knowledge and you are writing green screen apps. Yes RPG is a
pretty easy language to learn and has great DB access.  I just don't think
introducing two languages into the mix is the best solution. Debugging is
overly complex and you need somebody to learn two languages that are quite
different.

Last time you said Java was a bad business logic language and I dug deeper
into the reason and it turned out to be because Java's BigDecimal precision
wasn't up to your standards. Is that still your biggest hangup with Java as
a business logic language?

Aaron Bartell


-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Joe Pluta
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:46 AM
To: 'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject: RE: [WEB400] 520 pricing structure

> From: albartell
> 
> Half of those are needs based on existing knowledge sets so I wouldn't 
> count them as valid arguments (i.e. PASE, RPG, COBOL). Personally if I 
> was writing a new application (with a GUI front end) I wouldn't write 
> it in RPG or COBOL.

This is one place where we differ.  RPG is the best language available for
writing business logic, Aaron.  It's better than VB certainly, and FAR
better than Java.  See, I believe in the right tool for the right job, and
using an RPG back end to a JSP front end delivers all of the flexibility and
power of a real business language along with a sub-second response time.

(Literally.  I just installed a system using my thin-veneer JSP approach and
we're getting sub-second response time on 300-record queries.  We downloaded
over 8000 records to the browser in around 10 seconds.)

I think part of our disconnect is due to the fact that we don't agree on
what an "application" is.  If all you're doing is queries then it doesn't
matter what language you use, and you can run the thing on a Kaypro for all
I care.  But if you want real business logic -- material scheduling,
pricing, forecasting, warehousing, logistics -- you need a real business
programming language, and RPG is the best.

Joe

P.S. As to the Struts/JSF fiasco, you are definitely trying to make roadkill
smell like roses.  The problem is that one is not compatible with another.
It's NOTHING like RPG III to ILE RPG.  And when McClanahan dumps JSF next
year (or whenever he gets tired of it), you're going to have yet another set
of obsolete technology.


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