RE: 520 pricing structure -- WEB400

You know Joe, I am glad I have met you in person because on the lists you
are a piece of work :-) 

I don't like multiple languages when they aren't required. I think it is
foolish to hold on to RPG for web apps if you are already putting JSP on the
front end, but that is just me. The nice thing about Java is I can find
solid technologies for each tier that allow me to easily debug each tier
right from my desktop. 

>And when he jumps ship on JSF, let me know how YOU feel...
"Jumping ship" in the technology field is common practice if you ask me.
Sometimes changing an existing model is more painful than just introducing a
new one and having new development done in that model.  Our ages do differ
so maybe back in the day this wasn't as much the case.

>No, RPG is the best language for business development.  Period.
Ok. I agree. RPG is the best language for business logic in the universe.


>But my biggest hang-up is that OO sucks for business programming, and if
you don't use OO, Java doesn't buy you much as a language. 

I thought this is what you would say and I disagree. I think Java has a lot
to offer that RPG does not, and it is more the little things that I
appreciate in the language. I like having the ability to overload without
having to name a method differently, I like the ability to use Iterator with
Vectors, I like to define my own objects, I like the ability to use products
like iText, the list goes on. Can I pseudo do those things with RPG, you
bet, after I jump through some hoops and the like.

But anyways, we could debate forever. JSF and Java work for me. JSP and RPG
work for you.

Aaron Bartell


-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Joe Pluta
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 12:33 PM
To: 'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject: RE: [WEB400] 520 pricing structure

> From: albartell
> 
> I just don't like how you setup your tiers (multiple languages) and I 
> don't care to argue about it because we both have our minds set.

Yeah, but you're wrong <g>.  Seriously, if you don't like multiple languages
then we'll get your rocker set up at the Old Programmer's Home, because you
certainly won't be doing anything new or revolutionary.


> >(Literally.  I just installed a system using my thin-veneer JSP
approach
> and we're getting sub-second response time on 300-record queries.  We 
> downloaded over 8000 records to the browser in around 10 seconds.)
> 
> Just curious, what was the CPU load at the time of that download? Was
the
> box being hit pretty hard, normal usage, or you had most of the CPU 
> available to you?

Production machine, middle of the day.


> They can coexist, though like Craig states, the eventual goal should 
> be to migrate completely to JSF.

The man jumped ship, left the old technology and a LOT of people holding the
bag.  You talk to anybody with a decent investment in Struts and see how
they feel about old Craig.  And when he jumps ship on JSF, let me know how
YOU feel...



Aaron Bartell


> >...and RPG is the best.
> RPG is the best for the iSeries, yes I would agree with that if you 
> already have RPG knowledge and you are writing green screen apps.

No, RPG is the best language for business development.  Period.

> Yes RPG is a pretty easy language to learn and has great DB access.

Which makes it... <drum roll please>... THE BEST BUSINESS APPLICATION
LANGUAGE.  Gz.


> I just don't think introducing two languages into the mix is the best 
> solution. Debugging is overly complex and you need somebody to learn 
> two languages that are quite different.

Cripes.  How old are you, Aaron?  You sound like... well, you sound like an
old curmudgeon.  I'll get you a cane to go along with the rocking chair. <g>


> Last time you said Java was a bad business logic language and I dug
deeper
> into the reason and it turned out to be because Java's BigDecimal 
> precision wasn't up to your standards. Is that still your biggest
hangup
> with Java as a business logic language?

Not precision, it's performance.  Still sucks.  But my biggest hangup is
that OO sucks for business programming, and if you don't use OO, Java
doesn't buy you much as a language.  The overhead of strict typing, among
other things, makes it a lot harder to do something in Java than in RPG.

Joe


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