Re: Ruby On Rails on the iSeries

[Jerome Hughes <jromeh@xxxxxxx>]

Joe--

Sounds like we are on the same page in many ways. A couple of  
extensions...

> 1. I like Ruby.  As far as I can tell, it's a pretty well designed  
> example
> of a dynamically typed language: closer to Smalltalk (which I  
> liked, BTW)
> than most other languages.

agree, though haven't yet gotten as deeply into Ruby as Rails, see  
nice touches all the time

> 2. I like Rails.  It's a good implementation of what it tries to  
> do: make
> programming easy by relying on convention.

here think there's a bit more going on - people keep saying what it's  
trying to do is "make programming easy" and don't think that's the  
whole story unless "while providing for complexity by allowing  
extension" and "while not shirking the big issues which always come  
up" are added

it's far from easy to wrap your head around something new that does  
things in different ways from what you've used before, especially if  
that "while not shirking the big issues" thing is in there, so if  
you're going to do it, there had better be some depth and lucid  
reasons for the choices which have been made, and with Rails am  
finding that's there, as long as you're willing to learn about it

> My problems are this: neither one of these things (dynamically typed
> scripting languages or programming by convention) are proven to  
> actually
> work in enterprise level projects, whereas other environments (RPG,  
> J2EE,
> even VB/ASP) have proven track records.  So to talk about Ruby or  
> RoR as a
> technology that is going to supplant others is, to my mind, just a  
> little
> irresponsible.

not thinking he said it would supplant them, just (from your quote...)

> >  People are  beginning to wonder if Rails will throw J2EE and .aspx
> > development on their  respective ears.  I agree that's pretty  
> > imaginative.
> > How could a few young  programmers, collaborating in an open-source
> > environment, challenge some of the  most powerful corporations on  
> > earth?

many ways to interpret "...on their respective ears."

also see "I agree that's pretty imaginative."

it's ramped up quickly, and a lot of "cool kid" energy is going into  
it that might have been channeled into other platforms - the sense of  
community is strong, for a local flavor see...

http://ruby.meetup.com/cities/us/il/oak_brook/?chapter=closed

> And me personally, I have no use for yet another tool to do quick  
> an dirty
> programming, no matter how easy it is.  Unless it is proven to work  
> in an
> enterprise environment it's not something I'm going to use much.   
> And even
> then, if the people behind the project are just as important as the
> technology itself.

rails is very far from Q&D, while it is rapid and very structured,  
it's also very definitely clean and DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself)

> I only have to point to the vast number of Struts applications that  
> are now
> behind the technology curve to indicate how an open source  
> technology, no
> matter how well received by the community, can just as quickly  
> wither and
> die when there is a schism among the developers and someone  
> influential
> jumps ship.

this is a risk in very early stages with any technology, believe  
rails has been past this in its evolution for some time, is gathering  
momentum for many valid reasons

thx & hth,

--Jerome

> > From: Jerome Hughes
> >
> > Joe--
> >
> > (wrote this last night, but held off sending it... also not looking
> > for a debate, but perhaps can present another view, my friend...)
>
>
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