Re: What's the latest thinking of the besttwo or threewebdevelopment languages/environ...

Scott,

I didn't stipulate who I wanted to hear from. I'll listen to everyone on this topic even thought we may have "fought" in the past on other topics.

Blast on Net.Data; too bad.

Do you know where I can get/look at some PHP code that has been talking to the IBM i so I can get an idea of what it looks like, how it works, learning curve for me, etc?

Thanks for your thoughts and help,

Dave

Scott Klement <web400@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 8/7/2008 13:57 >>>

If you want my opinion (and you may not!) the best choice is PHP, hands
down.

In my experience, it's much, much easier to learn than J2EE, and also
requires a lot less in the way of system resources. On a huge server
handling millions of requests, yes, Java will be faster. On a small
server, however -- and this is my environment -- PHP vastly outperforms
Java.

Net.Data is almost certainly "on it's way out". Only a tiny number of
folks use it, and it's a proprietary IBM product. It's my prediction
that it will be phased out over the next several years -- but that's
nothing official, just my prediction. It also performs slower than PHP
in my experience...

.NET is certainly an option -- but it's a Microsoft option. I find
ASP.NET and PHP to be very similar in philosophy, just as I find C# and
Java to be similar in philosophy. YMMV.


Dave Odom wrote:

Mike,

I haven't made up my mind yet, but the final list of contenders are (in no particular order):

Java
.NET
PHP
Net.Data

But, even though I'm leaning toward PHP or Net.Data, simply because of time to productivity and lack of complexity in what it takes to develop, I'm also aware these may not be a good long term strategy. But, what I'm needing to do is a small app and then perhaps move it to a better environment, at some point,before it grows too big. Your thoughts?

Thanks,

Dave









ects. I haven't
connected it to the i, but it looks like others on the forum have.

Mike E.

On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Pete Helgren <Pete@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

You are down to PHP or a Java solution like JSP.

I write Java and I use Freemarker for my View layer stuff so I end up
writing a bit of servlet code to present the view. Actually, I use a
long abandoned framework called Niggle (which is based on Freemarker)
for all the servlet code.

There will be 99 ways to skin the cat here if you go the Java route. If
you currently know Java, then it will be just a matter of finding a
framework that meets your needs for simplicity. Spring is a popular
Java Web Framework (uses Freemarker too). You could also check out
Stripes (stripesframework.org)

You'll get plenty of recommendations. EGL is a good contender here: If
the IDE weren't a "for cost" item it would be a no brainer.

As for PHP. Great framework. Easy to learn language and some very
powerful stuff out there that is open source. You get great support from
Zend and there are plenty on this list who know it.

Have fun!

Pete


Dave Odom wrote:

Pete,

RPG won't be anywhere in the picture. On the DB2 side there will only be data, REXX, DB2 Query Manager and SQL stored procedures; perhaps some C if really necessary. Calls from the web apps will be to one or more of those. So, for Web Development it sounds like I'm down to PHP or JSP. Correct?

Thanks,

Dave

Pete Helgren <Pete@xxxxxxxxxx> 8/6/2008 14:30 >>>

Not sure if you can avoid learning curve and new development tools.
With ASP your server side stuff would have been wrapped into the code
for the client as well (depending upon how you wrote the asp pages and
separated your UI from the business logic). You need a new server side
language to work with since ASP can't be executed natively on the i (or
in PASE for that matter). So you are down to a few options:

CGIDEV2 for the server side. You already know RPG so that won't require
new skills. No new IDE either since you can write the server logic in
RPG using WDSc (or SDA).
Nathan Andelin, and a few others, have some RPG/CGI frameworks as well.

The rest of these options will require new language skills and IDE
(probably):

PHP - Might be an easier transition for you from ASP and Javascript.
JSP - If you go this route, WDSc or just Eclipse plus some plugs could
do it. Again, your ASP background will help, but you are heading into
Java land.
EGL - Easy and quick and you can do just about everything with one IDE
and language set. You have learning curve though and a new IDE ($$$)

Ruby on Rails - I have this working adequately and have to update my
tutorials to reflect all of the changes in the Ruby and Rails world over
the past 5 months. Learning curve is steep for Ruby and you'll need a
new IDE (well, plugins for Eclipse).

So, the only one I can think of that will meet your tight requires would
be CGIDEV2 or an RPG based web framework. Everything else will be quite
a jump.

My 2 cents.

Pete

Dave Odom wrote:

for creating web pages that access DB2/400 for SELECT, INSERT, UPDATE and DELETE operations? I'm talking about basic web development from scratch, not calling RPG, nor screen scraping existing Display Files; fresh web development. The beginning web pages will be simple, no fancy presentation for awhile. I'd like to store the web objects on the i but that may no longer be the best place.

I'd like to use what is in our current IBM i or MickySoft environment, not buy some new development tool, if at all possible. I'm used to working in HTML, ASP, javascript and the like. I wouldn't mind Using WebSphere, as we have it, but fear the learning curve might be too long. Opinions please.

Thank you,

Dave Odom
Arizona

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