Re: What's the latest thinking of the best two or threewebdevelopment languages/environ...

[Pete Helgren <Pete@xxxxxxxxxx>]

I don't know all that much about Net.Data and from what I recall (could 
have been 10 years ago?) it was very easy.  However, my biggest concern 
is for the longevity of the tool.  I seem to recall something about it 
being discontinued but don't quote me on that.

My logic, given your situation is:

1. *IF* I am not going to use RPG then I should look at something 
mainstream and cross platform, primarily because it would give you 4 
OSs/environments to potentially run on on i: i5/OS, AIX, Linux or PASE.

2. Java and PHP will run on all those platforms and, if you every 
decided to move from i (heaven forbid) you already have an app that will 
move with you.

3. I already know Java so that is where I would lean.  If I were 
absolutely new to Web Programming I'd use PHP because there is just an 
absolute TON of helps/code/programmers in that space.  It does scale, so 
I wouldn't sweat the "I can't use PHP for Enterprise level, large 
deployment environments" argument.  PHP is the 800 pound gorilla in 
terms of Web sites using it.

A good tutorial in *any* language will get you a web site quickly.  The 
issue is how quickly will you run into complexities that a quick 
tutorial won't help with?

Given PHP or Net.Data I'd go with PHP if I were in your shoes, given 
your requirements.

Pete


Dave Odom wrote:
> Pete,
>  
> What about Net.Data per my last message to Walden.    I'm thinking that Net.Data might be simpler/quicker to get something up and running and then could be easily transitioned to .NET or Java.   
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Dave
>
>   
> > > > Pete Helgren <Pete@xxxxxxxxxx> 8/6/2008 15:45 >>>
> > > >         
> You are down to PHP or a Java solution like JSP. 
>
> I write Java and I use Freemarker for my View layer stuff so I end up 
> writing a bit of servlet code to present the view.  Actually, I use a 
> long abandoned framework called Niggle (which is based on Freemarker) 
> for all the servlet code.
>
> There will be 99 ways to skin the cat here if you go the Java route.  If 
> you currently know Java, then it will be just a matter of finding a 
> framework that meets your needs for simplicity.  Spring is a popular 
> Java Web Framework (uses Freemarker too). You could also check out 
> Stripes (stripesframework.org)
>
> You'll get plenty of recommendations.  EGL is a good contender here: If 
> the IDE weren't a "for cost" item it would be a no brainer.
>
> As for PHP.  Great framework.  Easy to learn language and some very 
> powerful stuff out there that is open source. You get great support from 
> Zend and there are plenty on this list who know it.
>
> Have fun!
>
> Pete
>
>
> Dave Odom wrote:
>   
> > Pete,
> >  
> > RPG won't be anywhere in the picture.   On the DB2 side there will only be data, REXX, DB2 Query Manager and SQL stored procedures; perhaps some C if really necessary.    Calls from the web apps will be to one or more of those.   So, for Web Development it sounds like I'm down to PHP or JSP.   Correct?
> >  
> > Thanks,
> >  
> > Dave
> >
> >   
> >     
> > > > > Pete Helgren <Pete@xxxxxxxxxx> 8/6/2008 14:30 >>>
> > > > >         
> > > > >           
> > Not sure if you can avoid learning curve and new development tools.  
> > With ASP your server side stuff would have been wrapped into the code 
> > for the client as well (depending upon how you wrote the asp pages and 
> > separated your UI from the business logic). You need a new server side 
> > language to work with since ASP can't be executed natively on the i (or 
> > in PASE for that matter).  So you are down to a few options:
> >
> > CGIDEV2 for the server side.  You already know RPG so that won't require 
> > new skills.  No new IDE either since you can write the server logic in 
> > RPG using WDSc (or SDA).
> > Nathan Andelin, and a few others, have some RPG/CGI frameworks as well.
> >
> > The rest of these options will require new language skills and IDE 
> > (probably):
> >
> > PHP - Might be an easier transition for you from ASP and Javascript.
> > JSP - If you go this route, WDSc or just Eclipse plus some plugs could 
> > do it.  Again, your ASP background will help, but you are heading into 
> > Java land.
> > EGL - Easy and quick and you can do just about everything with one IDE 
> > and language set.  You have learning curve though and a new IDE ($$$)
> >
> > Ruby on Rails - I have this working adequately and have to update my 
> > tutorials to reflect all of the changes in the Ruby and Rails world over 
> > the past 5 months.  Learning curve is steep for Ruby and you'll need a 
> > new IDE (well, plugins for Eclipse).
> >
> > So, the only one I can think of that will meet your tight requires would 
> > be CGIDEV2 or an RPG based web framework.  Everything else will be quite 
> > a jump.
> >
> > My 2 cents.
> >
> > Pete
> >
> > Dave Odom wrote:
> >   
> >     
> > > for creating web pages that access DB2/400 for SELECT, INSERT, UPDATE and DELETE operations?  I'm talking about basic web development from scratch, not calling RPG, nor screen scraping existing Display Files; fresh web development.  The beginning web pages will be simple, no fancy presentation for awhile.  I'd like to store the web objects on the i but that may no longer be the best place.  
> > >  
> > > I'd like to use what is in our current IBM i or MickySoft environment, not buy some new development tool, if at all possible.   I'm used to working in HTML, ASP, javascript and the like.  I wouldn't mind Using WebSphere, as we have it, but fear the learning curve might be too long. Opinions please.
> > >  
> > > Thank you,
> > >  
> > > Dave Odom
> > > Arizona
> > >   
> > >     
> > >