Re: What's the latest thinking ofthe best two or threewebdevelopment languages/environ... -- WEB400

Pete,

Superb answer!!! You have captured many of my considerations.

I'd love to learn Java and PHP as I think they would also be good for my resume for moving on from here. I've done a little HTML, javascript and ASP on the Web but don't know how that translates to either of these languages. It sounds like I would be wiser to go with PHP over Net.Data or perhaps anything else in this situation.

Now I just have to figure out how to get it going on the i if possible.

Thanks,

Dave

Pete Helgren <Pete@xxxxxxxxxx> 8/7/2008 14:40 >>>

I don't know all that much about Net.Data and from what I recall (could
have been 10 years ago?) it was very easy. However, my biggest concern
is for the longevity of the tool. I seem to recall something about it
being discontinued but don't quote me on that.

My logic, given your situation is:

1. *IF* I am not going to use RPG then I should look at something
mainstream and cross platform, primarily because it would give you 4
OSs/environments to potentially run on on i: i5/OS, AIX, Linux or PASE.

2. Java and PHP will run on all those platforms and, if you every
decided to move from i (heaven forbid) you already have an app that will
move with you.

3. I already know Java so that is where I would lean. If I were
absolutely new to Web Programming I'd use PHP because there is just an
absolute TON of helps/code/programmers in that space. It does scale, so
I wouldn't sweat the "I can't use PHP for Enterprise level, large
deployment environments" argument. PHP is the 800 pound gorilla in
terms of Web sites using it.

A good tutorial in *any* language will get you a web site quickly. The
issue is how quickly will you run into complexities that a quick
tutorial won't help with?

Given PHP or Net.Data I'd go with PHP if I were in your shoes, given
your requirements.

Pete

Dave Odom wrote:

Pete,

What about Net.Data per my last message to Walden. I'm thinking that Net.Data might be simpler/quicker to get something up and running and then could be easily transitioned to .NET or Java.

Thanks,

Dave

Pete Helgren <Pete@xxxxxxxxxx> 8/6/2008 15:45 >>>

You are down to PHP or a Java solution like JSP.

I write Java and I use Freemarker for my View layer stuff so I end up
writing a bit of servlet code to present the view. Actually, I use a
long abandoned framework called Niggle (which is based on Freemarker)
for all the servlet code.

There will be 99 ways to skin the cat here if you go the Java route. If
you currently know Java, then it will be just a matter of finding a
framework that meets your needs for simplicity. Spring is a popular
Java Web Framework (uses Freemarker too). You could also check out
Stripes (stripesframework.org)

You'll get plenty of recommendations. EGL is a good contender here: If
the IDE weren't a "for cost" item it would be a no brainer.

As for PHP. Great framework. Easy to learn language and some very
powerful stuff out there that is open source. You get great support from
Zend and there are plenty on this list who know it.

Have fun!

Pete

Dave Odom wrote:

Pete,

RPG won't be anywhere in the picture. On the DB2 side there will only be data, REXX, DB2 Query Manager and SQL stored procedures; perhaps some C if really necessary. Calls from the web apps will be to one or more of those. So, for Web Development it sounds like I'm down to PHP or JSP. Correct?

Thanks,

Dave

Pete Helgren <Pete@xxxxxxxxxx> 8/6/2008 14:30 >>>

Not sure if you can avoid learning curve and new development tools.
With ASP your server side stuff would have been wrapped into the code
for the client as well (depending upon how you wrote the asp pages and
separated your UI from the business logic). You need a new server side
language to work with since ASP can't be executed natively on the i (or
in PASE for that matter). So you are down to a few options:

CGIDEV2 for the server side. You already know RPG so that won't require
new skills. No new IDE either since you can write the server logic in
RPG using WDSc (or SDA).
Nathan Andelin, and a few others, have some RPG/CGI frameworks as well.

The rest of these options will require new language skills and IDE
(probably):

PHP - Might be an easier transition for you from ASP and Javascript.
JSP - If you go this route, WDSc or just Eclipse plus some plugs could
do it. Again, your ASP background will help, but you are heading into
Java land.
EGL - Easy and quick and you can do just about everything with one IDE
and language set. You have learning curve though and a new IDE ($$$)

Ruby on Rails - I have this working adequately and have to update my
tutorials to reflect all of the changes in the Ruby and Rails world over
the past 5 months. Learning curve is steep for Ruby and you'll need a
new IDE (well, plugins for Eclipse).

So, the only one I can think of that will meet your tight requires would
be CGIDEV2 or an RPG based web framework. Everything else will be quite
a jump.

My 2 cents.

Pete

Dave Odom wrote:

for creating web pages that access DB2/400 for SELECT, INSERT, UPDATE and DELETE operations? I'm talking about basic web development from scratch, not calling RPG, nor screen scraping existing Display Files; fresh web development. The beginning web pages will be simple, no fancy presentation for awhile. I'd like to store the web objects on the i but that may no longer be the best place.

I'd like to use what is in our current IBM i or MickySoft environment, not buy some new development tool, if at all possible. I'm used to working in HTML, ASP, javascript and the like. I wouldn't mind Using WebSphere, as we have it, but fear the learning curve might be too long. Opinions please.

Thank you,

Dave Odom
Arizona