Yes - I absolutely agree. It is profitability that matters, so the overall
cost of ownership is important.
Also, because of the large quantity of legacy code out there, any solution
that can leverage this code and reduce both the installation costs and time
scales also has an impact on the overall cost of any project.
The re-using of existing investments, keeping things simple, and avoiding
too many software layers allows the creation of cost effective solutions on
the "i", making it a very competitive business solution.
Syd
-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Niels Liisberg
Sent: 19 August 2008 11:26
To: 'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Getting startedwith Net.data -was -I'dbetterdomorethan
talk
Aaron Bartell wrote>>
Does Zend have any public PHP "success stories" of PHP on the IBMi? I know
lots on this forum have had success, but they were already on the IBMi. I
am looking for a story where somebody actually made the move and provided
reasons for WHY they chose the more expensive IBMi over other servers.
It would be great to see IBMSystemsMag.com do such a story!
<<
Hi Aaron;
When we are discussing PHP this way it is actually a discussion on the price
and the appeal of the LAMP stack v.s. iADP stack (Linux Apache mySQL PHP)
vs. ("i" Apache DB/2 PHP).
Unfortunately for IBM ( and us), LAPM is so easy to jump on. Thousand of
internet providers give you a virtual LAPM stack for a couple a bucks a
month. And you can experiment with it on a warn out PC.
I don?t think you will find a lot of PHP newbies on the "i" out there.
However, PHP is a great migration path for IBMi customers and maybe or maybe
not abandon the IBMi ship and move to other platforms.
One story though is maybe the University of Gothenburg. I know they are
using the "i" for all kind of stuff, and teaching PHP and java on the box. I
know because I was up there teaching application modernization using
IceBreak.
I have a number of success stories where we have killed some windows servers
with the "i", however it was not thanks to PHP. It has always bee where we
had a turnkey solution... add water and you have a party.
In these cases we have sold the complete solution and never talked about
what was under the hood of the black box. We sold it on "total cost of
ownership". And it works.....
If we had talked of RPG or IceBreak we would had left the party before it
began. However, we had success selling new "i"s to customers who never had
"i"s before counting prominent names like Ford motors, Mazda motors among
others.
If you like it I can send you lots of case stories where out customers has
purchased new "i"s and switched off the windoze.
The key here is the tons of legacy code we have written in RPG and now
migrated and orchestrated as webservices by IceBreak. This garnished with
new funky UI in extJS - to a sub low total price... does the trick.
Just to underline my point that PHP is a super great tool but is not the
salvation for the "i" - but rewiring the legacy code is. So the answer to
your question is: few.
Syd is backing my point if I read him right:
Syd wrote>>
I have a client - in Aberdeen, Scotland - that runs a 24/7 shop. On
this site there are no (repeat - NO) Windoze servers. The "i" does
everything (file server, print server, fax server, web server, firewall,
internet gateway, mail server, dhcp, dns, etc, etc).
It is not that often that you here that.
Why does this client use "i"? -- They use it because with "i" they can run a
24/7 shop with zero IT staff. That right, there are no IT staff. This
company pays a retainer for support on an as required basis and have worked
this way since 1994. Never has the system failed in all this time.
Financially, this means that this client saves approx £200,000 per annum in
employment costs. That's £200,000 extra profit every year. The system i pays
for itself in months, and Windoze servers are not welcome on this site. If
any new software requires Windoze, they don't buy, instead they look for
alternatives.
Regarding marketing - well IBM have been informed many times, and the client
has agreed to act as a reference site. But, so far, IBM have not expressed
great interest. Shame!
Syd Nicholson
<<
-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Dave Odom
Sent: 18 August 2008 20:54
To: 'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Getting started with Net.data -was
-I'dbetterdomorethan talk
Maurice,
Exactly what I've been saying for years now. CEOs/CIOs(if they are not
still a nerd)/CFOs don't give a rats (*^ about the platform, they care about
their business with regard to:
- Increase Revenue
- Increase Productivity
- Decrease Risk
- Decrease Cycle time
BUT, with that said, these type folks are aware of Windoz everyday. They
also don't want to hear that someone wants to buy/keep a "tool" that deals
in a language called Rocket Propelled Grenade (what they think of when they
hear RPG) for which there are few trained to support in the market place
and almost no schools teaching. Couple this with what appears to them to
be a higher cost item, and the value message just doesn't seem to be there.
So, unless you can really make a good value elevator speech, the i idea is
dead or dying. Do I like that?? No, but, it is the direction of the
world... unless everyone in the i industry that possibly can, can show a
good value message and market it like mad NOW.
Dave
"Maurice O'Prey" <maurice.oprey@xxxxxxxxx> 8/18/2008 11:52 >>>
Aaron Bartell Wrote:
That dynamic is the fact that programmers are more and more deciding which
platform the >>business will be running on based on development tools.
Aaron
To me it seems like the CEO/MDs are deciding (not the developers). This
means (in some cases) goodbye to the iSeries (their opinion not mine).
Having conflict about the technology that should be run does not really help
the case much either (IMHO), it simply makes them (the businesses)
technology agnostic (and go for the business solution). After that it is not
in the hands of the developers as today's IT world is fast moving (and it is
moving).
Maurice O'Prey
----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Aaron Bartell
Sent: 18 August 2008 13:41
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Getting started with Net.data - was
-I'dbetterdomorethan talk
Remember, it is the solutions that sell hardware, not necessarily the
tools.
What is selling .NET then? How is RoR getting into the market? I disagree
with you near completely on this point. I would agree that *some* decisions
are made just because xyz software only runs on Windows, but for the most
part there is a very interesting dynamic happening in the past 5 years.
That dynamic is the fact that programmers are more and more deciding which
platform the business will be running on based on development tools. The
proof in the pudding for me is .NET (the leader) and other technologies like
RoR, etc. Developers are choosing these tools because there is an initial
phase where you are incredibly productive and all other thoughts of
long-term-viability are thrown out the window.
My prediction: In about 10 years we will have such an incredible mess of
technologies/languages/databases that there will be dire need for an XML
like savior to come in and make everyone talk on the same level. There will
most likely be languages translators that aim to bring everything to a
common language so IT depts can focus on one syntax to gain a competitive
advantage and ease of development/deployment. In the end it comes down to
sticking with your existing investment and building on that. The only
reason to move is if most all avenues have been tried and in my experience
that is hardly ever the case.
Aaron Bartell
http://mowyourlawn.com (
http://mowyourlawn.com/ )
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 7:06 AM, Mike Pavlak <Mike.Pavlak@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
There may be such a story, but I have not seen it yet. Right now, we see
folks who are in the IBMi camp coming to PHP. About the closest we
would come would be a customer that purchased HarrisData because they
wanted to stay on the i5 and they liked the fact that the front end is
getting moved from Net.Data to PHP. For HarrisData, it is beginning
with their customer zone and will move on from there:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20080812/bs_prweb/prweb1201344_3;_ylt=AoC6
XhbU68Dn1.N8PZDvlqS8r70F;_ylu=X3oDMTA4Nm4ycjRuBHNlYwNuZXdz
We are revamping the Zend website with new case studies that should be
up soon. Will keep an eye out. Remember, it is the solutions that sell
hardware, not necessarily the tools. All those AS/400's in the 80's &
90's went out the door with SSA BPCS and JD Edwards World, etc. on them.
As we see more ERP opportunities in the IBMi space written in PHP or
with PHP front ends that is when I expect to start selling hardware.
For now, we are simply one damn good reason not to jump off! Momentum
is certainly building...
Regards,
Mike
Also, check out the i5 content at ZendCon 2008 - Our annual PHP
ConferenceSeptember 15-18:
www.zendcon.com
-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Aaron Bartell
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 6:47 AM
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Getting started with Net.data - was
-I'dbetterdomorethan talk
Does Zend have any public PHP "success stories" of PHP on the IBMi? I
know
lots on this forum have had success, but they were already on the IBMi.
I
am looking for a story where somebody actually made the move and
provided
reasons for WHY they chose the more expensive IBMi over other servers.
It would be great to see IBMSystemsMag.com do such a story!
Aaron Bartell
http://mowyourlawn.com ( http://mowyourlawn.com/ )
On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Mike Pavlak <Mike.Pavlak@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:
In my experience, All the PHP developers I have met that have been
asked
to work on and IBMi have little trouble moving to the IBMi. Many
actually enjoy it :-) There is a sect in the PHP community longing to
support PHP in an enterprise environment.
I think the IBMi is easier to learn and understand than the dark art
of
Linux. IMHO...
And yes, the i5-toolkit in Zend Core is pretty easy to use, but not
necessary for straight SQL calls to the DB.
Regards,
Mike
Also, check out the i5 content at ZendCon 2008 - Our annual PHP
ConferenceSeptember 15-18:
www.zendcon.com
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