Well, this has gotton far afield from my initial request for help on Net.Data, PHP, etc., but a last thought:
But, to be fair, none of the "end users" SHOULD care what platform they are on. It is, and should be seen as a tool, nothing more. What they should see is the "tool" is available and gives them the service they need when they need it for as cheap a price as possible.
Unlike other professions, such as Engineering, Physician, Pilot, and the like, the computer profession allowed its environment and tools to get TOO close to the end user. When you make a professional environment into a consumer environment, you get the lay person fooling around making decisions about something that is far above their ability to thoroughly understanding and make rational decisions upon.
Thanks to all those that helped with the Net.Data, PHP, etc. Shortly, I'll start my prototype in both Net.Data and PHP and see which one allows me to get what I want up and running first.
Thanks,
Dave
Margaret Hopkins <mhopkins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 8/18/2008 14:40 >>>
Dido with many in the education field - Many think the IBMi is a dinosaur, archaic and have no clue what they have, or what can be done with it. They just want what is pretty and getting away from the i. This is a good one ... "Its an old DOS based system, we need to move to windows system" -- No clue.
-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dave Odom
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 3:54 PM
To: 'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Getting started with Net.data -was -I'dbetterdomorethan talk
Maurice,
Exactly what I've been saying for years now. CEOs/CIOs(if they are not still a nerd)/CFOs don't give a rats (*^ about the platform, they care about their business with regard to:
- Increase Revenue
- Increase Productivity
- Decrease Risk
- Decrease Cycle time
BUT, with that said, these type folks are aware of Windoz everyday. They also don't want to hear that someone wants to buy/keep a "tool" that deals in a language called Rocket Propelled Grenade (what they think of when they hear RPG) for which there are few trained to support in the market place and almost no schools teaching. Couple this with what appears to them to be a higher cost item, and the value message just doesn't seem to be there. So, unless you can really make a good value elevator speech, the i idea is dead or dying. Do I like that?? No, but, it is the direction of the world... unless everyone in the i industry that possibly can, can show a good value message and market it like mad NOW.
Dave
"Maurice O'Prey" <maurice.oprey@xxxxxxxxx> 8/18/2008 11:52 >>>
Aaron Bartell Wrote:
That dynamic is the fact that programmers are more and more deciding which
platform the >>business will be running on based on development tools.
Aaron
To me it seems like the CEO/MDs are deciding (not the developers). This
means (in some cases) goodbye to the iSeries (their opinion not mine).
Having conflict about the technology that should be run does not really help
the case much either (IMHO), it simply makes them (the businesses)
technology agnostic (and go for the business solution). After that it is not
in the hands of the developers as today's IT world is fast moving (and it is
moving).
Maurice O'Prey
----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Aaron Bartell
Sent: 18 August 2008 13:41
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Getting started with Net.data - was
-I'dbetterdomorethan talk
Remember, it is the solutions that sell hardware, not necessarily the
tools.
What is selling .NET then? How is RoR getting into the market? I disagree
with you near completely on this point. I would agree that *some* decisions
are made just because xyz software only runs on Windows, but for the most
part there is a very interesting dynamic happening in the past 5 years.
That dynamic is the fact that programmers are more and more deciding which
platform the business will be running on based on development tools. The
proof in the pudding for me is .NET (the leader) and other technologies like
RoR, etc. Developers are choosing these tools because there is an initial
phase where you are incredibly productive and all other thoughts of
long-term-viability are thrown out the window.
My prediction: In about 10 years we will have such an incredible mess of
technologies/languages/databases that there will be dire need for an XML
like savior to come in and make everyone talk on the same level. There will
most likely be languages translators that aim to bring everything to a
common language so IT depts can focus on one syntax to gain a competitive
advantage and ease of development/deployment. In the end it comes down to
sticking with your existing investment and building on that. The only
reason to move is if most all avenues have been tried and in my experience
that is hardly ever the case.
Aaron Bartell
http://mowyourlawn.com (
http://mowyourlawn.com/ ) (
http://mowyourlawn.com/ )
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 7:06 AM, Mike Pavlak <Mike.Pavlak@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
There may be such a story, but I have not seen it yet. Right now, we see
folks who are in the IBMi camp coming to PHP. About the closest we
would come would be a customer that purchased HarrisData because they
wanted to stay on the i5 and they liked the fact that the front end is
getting moved from Net.Data to PHP. For HarrisData, it is beginning
with their customer zone and will move on from there:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20080812/bs_prweb/prweb1201344_3;_ylt=AoC6
XhbU68Dn1.N8PZDvlqS8r70F;_ylu=X3oDMTA4Nm4ycjRuBHNlYwNuZXdz
We are revamping the Zend website with new case studies that should be
up soon. Will keep an eye out. Remember, it is the solutions that sell
hardware, not necessarily the tools. All those AS/400's in the 80's &
90's went out the door with SSA BPCS and JD Edwards World, etc. on them.
As we see more ERP opportunities in the IBMi space written in PHP or
with PHP front ends that is when I expect to start selling hardware.
For now, we are simply one damn good reason not to jump off! Momentum
is certainly building...
Regards,
Mike
Also, check out the i5 content at ZendCon 2008 - Our annual PHP
ConferenceSeptember 15-18:
www.zendcon.com
-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Aaron Bartell
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 6:47 AM
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Getting started with Net.data - was
-I'dbetterdomorethan talk
Does Zend have any public PHP "success stories" of PHP on the IBMi? I
know
lots on this forum have had success, but they were already on the IBMi.
I
am looking for a story where somebody actually made the move and
provided
reasons for WHY they chose the more expensive IBMi over other servers.
It would be great to see IBMSystemsMag.com do such a story!
Aaron Bartell
http://mowyourlawn.com ( http://mowyourlawn.com/ ) ( http://mowyourlawn.com/ )
On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Mike Pavlak <Mike.Pavlak@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:
In my experience, All the PHP developers I have met that have been
asked
to work on and IBMi have little trouble moving to the IBMi. Many
actually enjoy it :-) There is a sect in the PHP community longing to
support PHP in an enterprise environment.
I think the IBMi is easier to learn and understand than the dark art
of
Linux. IMHO...
And yes, the i5-toolkit in Zend Core is pretty easy to use, but not
necessary for straight SQL calls to the DB.
Regards,
Mike
Also, check out the i5 content at ZendCon 2008 - Our annual PHP
ConferenceSeptember 15-18:
www.zendcon.com
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